Pelosi - Next Pres Could Declare Gun Emergency

[OhHeyThereBen]

Orderly immigration, not the political mess that congress (both parties) has left us with, is a strategic national advantage (see Japan in 2050 for the consequences of no immigration). As for multiple languages, we did just fine in the immigration waves from 1870-1910, I am sure we could do again. Like I tell my friends, “we don’t have a too much immigration problem, we have a lack of emigration problem.” I welcome all hard working people who value education and take care of their families as neighbors and fellow citizens, and would love to move along the lazy and entitled that have swelled during our prosperous century.

I agree with both you and Schmalts as well as Neffa above. Hispanics (in general) that I know are hard working, friendly, and reliable people. There's no reason that an immigration reform shouldn't happen to allow more in. We do, however, need to figure out a way to vet people from coming here illegally and get people that are already here registered as citizens so they can pay taxes like everyone else.

It bothers me that we're at such a stalemate on this when I feel as though there are very good compromises to be made on both sides. Find an easy path to citizenship for people already here, open up and allow more legal immigrants (I realize that we already allow more people than any country in the world), and build proper border security to stop people from doing horrible things. I feel like this is something that everyone that has a brain in their head could get behind.

 

[Doublecluck]

Tell me how exactly keeping mexican's out of our country is going to HELP your life? What are they actively doing against you now? Not philosophically but tangible impacts? Open of your refrigerator, all of the produce is a product of their effort, their sweat. Right, wrong or indifferent, they're actively doing something to HELP you. They're providing a service that no one else is willing to do, so that you can eat a salad in December while you watch your Fox news. Legitimately talk to a farmer, especially a small one, with maybe 10 acre of cherries, ask them how many white people they can get to pick for them. I know of two, total.

Immigration is an issues that a wall will never solve, it's also an issue that will never be "solved" to everyone's liking, so is it really a hill that anyone or any party should be dying on?

This isn’t about Mexicans, knowbody is saying to keep anyone out of the country. There are laws people need to obey them. We need to know who is coming in the country, for what purpose, for how long and have limits on that. 3 billon people in the world live in poverty, should we let them all in? People who pick berries can get work visas. Who the hell is sayimg we don’t need those people? There is a legal path. That’s not the problem, the problem is letting an unlimited amount of anybody cross the southern border or any border.

 

[ltdann]

I notice you selectively left out the opinions of the border patrol. What’s the opinions of the public servants that actually monitor the border?

You ever have to go down to the school and request that the school send home paper notices in English? I have, riverside CA 2005, they told me most of the parents speak Spanish so they quit sending them home in English. You ever find out one of your employees were part of a gang the originated in South America and had a plan to rob you and your family? I have upland CA 2003, upland swat team arrested them at our shop in the process after another employee had tipped us off. Was your wife’s grandfather robbed and stabbed to death by two illegals he formerly employed? You ever try getting a job as a legal citizen in a construction trade/food service industry job in a area where there is a unlimited supply of people who will work for cash under the table, unlimited hours, and work overtime without getting paid time and a half? I could go on and on for pages.

It is absolutely true that my kids have gotten a better education in Montana than they were in southern California, for a number of reasons but certainly illegal immigration is among them. How many kids are in public schools in southern states who’s parents don’t pay taxes? How many of their parents send large portions of their earnings back to southern countries rather than spending them in local economies where tax revenues are collected? I could go on, people are using the system and not paying in to it. It’s not fair to American citizens and something at some point must be done about it.

This^^^ And don't forget being in car accident with an illegal. No registration , no license, no insurance. When the cops ask for info, it's no habla. Can't ask their immigration status so the cops issue a ticket to an imaginary address and the guy vanishes.....so why is my insurance sky high?

 

[Losing_Sanity]

Tell me how exactly keeping mexican's out of our country is going to HELP your life? What are they actively doing against you now? Not philosophically but tangible impacts? Open of your refrigerator, all of the produce is a product of their effort, their sweat. Right, wrong or indifferent, they're actively doing something to HELP you. They're providing a service that no one else is willing to do, so that you can eat a salad in December while you watch your Fox news. Legitimately talk to a farmer, especially a small one, with maybe 10 acre of cherries, ask them how many white people they can get to pick for them. I know of two, total.

Immigration is an issues that a wall will never solve, it's also an issue that will never be "solved" to everyone's liking, so is it really a hill that anyone or any party should be dying on?

I usually try vary hard to stay out of these conversations because it's the quickest was to create an enemy. Everyone has a right to their opinion and to stand for something, and we don't need haters.
Sir, you make some great points, however you miss the mark on one very important point. It is not keeping the Mexicans out that is the issue. We are keeping every culture out that try to gain access illegally and are not vetted. Mexicans and other are welcome to come pick my cherries or lettuce or any other thing. But do it legally! It does have an affect on our economy.
On a side note, without to much detail, as a child I/we were just as poor and bad off as they are and maybe even more. And as a child I skipped school to hoe cotton, and pick melons, citrus, lettuce and other stuff to help my mom pay the bills. And I am not Mexican, I'm the white privileged. Too much said I presume...

 

[ltdann]

Or having to explain to the IRS that your wife works full time in CA and can't moonlight in a meatpacking plant in the Midwest, 10 states away. And no, it's not additional income, regardless whose using the SSN. That one took awhile......

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I notice you selectively left out the opinions of the border patrol. What’s the opinions of the public servants that actually monitor the border?

That was not an intentional omission, I was attempting to through them in with career public servants. There are probably other relevant alphabet agencies that I left out.

There are a ton of separate issues to unpack in your comment, and it would be irresponsible and ignorant for me to pretend like I have a solution to any of them, other than; people who have made issues their life's work should be the ones at the forefront of the conversation.

Sorry about your families loss, that is truly horrific.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

This isn’t about Mexicans, knowbody is saying to keep anyone out of the country. There are laws people need to obey them. We need to know who is coming in the country, for what purpose, for how long and have limits on that. 3 billon people in the world live in poverty, should we let them all in? People who pick berries can get work visas. Who the hell is sayimg we don’t need those people? There is a legal path. That’s not the problem, the problem is letting an unlimited amount of anybody cross the southern border or any border.

My great great grandfather's citizenship documents are framed and hanging on my wall, the United States had open borders when he immigrated, hard for me to look at that and then want to slam a door that was open to my family.

A close friend of mine married a man she met in Grenadines, it took them close to 4 years (after they were married) to get him a green card so that he could enter to the US legally. In the 4 years after they were married, our government would not even give him a tourist visa. He had to meet his in-laws for the first time in Canada. He had a job, no criminal record, and there was no reason to think he would over stay a tourist visa as his spouse, an american citizen, also had a job in the Grenadines. Given how long it took a couple with means to navigate the system I can't imagine how hard it is for others.

 

[schmalts]

Tell me how exactly keeping mexican's out of our country is going to HELP your life? What are they actively doing against you now? Not philosophically but tangible impacts? Open of your refrigerator, all of the produce is a product of their effort, their sweat. Right, wrong or indifferent, they're actively doing something to HELP you. They're providing a service that no one else is willing to do, so that you can eat a salad in December while you watch your Fox news. Legitimately talk to a farmer, especially a small one, with maybe 10 acre of cherries, ask them how many white people they can get to pick for them. I know of two, total.

Immigration is an issues that a wall will never solve, it's also an issue that will never be "solved" to everyone's liking, so is it really a hill that anyone or any party should be dying on?

You obviously never cared to look at the cost burden on the healthcare, schools, and other costs. Healthcare costs alone is something like 15 billion per year. Not a worry if you're not paying for your policy, but your head is buried in the sand if you think it isn't costing the rest of us. If our laws were enforced farmers would have no trouble getting their workers because those workers would be doing what they are supposed to be doing instead of driving down wages of other fields they are not supposed to be doing. It boggles my mind that those who scream to protect illegals working are the same ones screaming for higher minimum wage. Take a simple supply and demand class.

 

[Tradewind]

Re: Harry Reid blowing up the filibuster.

Politics is chess. We have the Checkers B team playing today.

Checkers is usually enough of a challenge for most of them

 

[Sytes]

Tell me how exactly keeping mexican's out of our country is going to HELP your life? What are they actively doing against you now? Not philosophically but tangible impacts? Open of your refrigerator, all of the produce is a product of their effort, their sweat. Right, wrong or indifferent, they're actively doing something to HELP you. They're providing a service that no one else is willing to do, so that you can eat a salad in December while you watch your Fox news. Legitimately talk to a farmer, especially a small one, with maybe 10 acre of cherries, ask them how many white people they can get to pick for them. I know of two, total.

Immigration is an issues that a wall will never solve, it's also an issue that will never be "solved" to everyone's liking, so is it really a hill that anyone or any party should be dying on?

There is a difference between LEGAL requests for admission into this great country and illegally entering this great country. Let's not play games over illegally entering as some form of "legal entry".

 

[Irrelevant]

I usually try vary hard to stay out of these conversations because it's the quickest was to create an enemy. Everyone has a right to their opinion and to stand for something, and we don't need haters.
Sir, you make some great points, however you miss the mark on one very important point. It is not keeping the Mexicans out that is the issue. We are keeping every culture out that try to gain access illegally and are not vetted. Mexicans and other are welcome to come pick my cherries or lettuce or any other thing. But do it legally! It does have an affect on our economy.
On a side note, without to much detail, as a child I/we were just as poor and bad off as they are and maybe even more. And as a child I skipped school to hoe cotton, and pick melons, citrus, lettuce and other stuff to help my mom pay the bills. And I am not Mexican, I'm the white privileged. Too much said I presume...

Then why build a wall, why not build a working expedited legal immigration system?

 

[ltdann]

My great great grandfather's citizenship documents are framed and hanging on my wall, the United States had open borders when he immigrated, hard for me to look at that and then want to slam a door that was open to my family.

A close friend of mine married a man she met in Grenadines, it took them close to 4 years (after they were married) to get him a green card so that he could enter to the US legally. In the 4 years after they were married, our government would not even give him a tourist visa. He had to meet his in-laws for the first time in Canada. He had a job, no criminal record, and there was no reason to think he would over stay a tourist visa as his spouse, an american citizen, also had a job in the Grenadines. Given how long it took a couple with means to navigate the system I can't imagine how hard it is for others.

The legal immigration system in this country is broken...and has been for decades. The President can't fix that, he doesn't have that authority. It's congress that has to fix it and they've been unwilling to the hard work required. All the president can do is put pressure on and try and make congress do their jobs. From where I sit, he appears to be trying very hard to do that.

Why shouldn't we perform vetting on folks that want to immigrate? We perform all kinds of background checks in this country on our own citizen, but non-citizens are exempt?

How can we get control on our immigration system, if congress ignores ITS OWN LAWS. I've seen drone footage of tour buses driving up to our unprotected border and folks getting out and walking a few yards into the US to await the border patrol. The border jumpers know full well that they can eventually disappear into the system. What kind of mess is that? We put people on the moon for goodness sake, but can't seem to put a stop to that nonsense.

Congress needs to stop taking the easy way out and do the hard work that needs to be done IRT putting in place a immigrations system that is just and meaningful, where good people can immigrant and become part of the solution, instead of the problem.

 

[Irrelevant]

You obviously never cared to look at the cost burden on the healthcare, schools, and other costs. Healthcare costs alone is something like 15 billion per year. Not a worry if you're not paying for your policy, but your head is buried in the sand if you think it isn't costing the rest of us. If our laws were enforced farmers would have no trouble getting their workers because those workers would be doing what they are supposed to be doing instead of driving down wages of other fields they are not supposed to be doing. It boggles my mind that those who scream to protect illegals working are the same ones screaming for higher minimum wage. Take a simple supply and demand class.

How exactly is that different from the white meth head or the chronically unemployed? At least they're doing something. Everyone worked up over our trumped up national emergency should find a real problem to direct your recreational outrage at. You clearing don't farm. You could easily offer 1.5x minimum wage and never get enough non-immigant workers to pick you fruit. It's not about money dude, immigrants still remember how to work hard, "we" generally don't, unless we call pecking away at internet activism or driving a desk as working hard.

 

[Losing_Sanity]

Then why build a wall, why not build a working expedited legal immigration system?

No one said we shouldn't. President Trump has pushed for immigration reform to make it more efficient. But because it is Trump, Democrats close off to his efforts. And some Republicans too. That's from their hatred of the person.

Even with an updated efficient system, we would still need the wall. The criminal's, terrorist. and people who can't be vetted would still try to cross illegally. It's a package deal that is needed to support each other, wall and reform.

If you owned a store, you would put locks on the door to keep people from coming in and cleaning you out. And it wouldn't just be the needy coming for food to survive. So you start a program to help the needy and give them resources to help them. You would still need lock your doors to keep the criminals from taking whats yours and making it where you can't help others any more much less feed your family.

 

[ltdann]

How exactly is that different from the white meth head or the chronically unemployed? At least they're doing something. Everyone worked up over our trumped up national emergency should find a real problem to direct your recreational outrage at. You clearing don't farm. You could easily offer 1.5x minimum wage and never get enough non-immigant workers to pick you fruit. It's not about money dude, immigrants still remember how to work hard, "we" generally don't, unless we call pecking away at internet activism or driving a desk as working hard.

We all have different perspectives based on where we live. I live in SOCAL and we have an estimated 2.5 illegal migrants here. Every year I pay enough income tax to buy the government a mid-sized economy car while I drive a 20 year old beater truck. A good chunk of that money goes to health and human services for the state. HERE, in this state, 2.5 million people that shouldn't be here, use a proportionally large chunk of that HHS funding. Why, because we're not allowed to ask their immigration status, and because they're here illegally, its available to them.

Now the rest of my family lives in WA state, where an estimated 88,000 illegals reside. My family doesn't see it as a problem...numbers like that are easily absorbed.

Personally, I'd love to see the wall built, then give citizenship to those here illegally and tax them at the same rate as the rest of us.

 

[Losing_Sanity]

How exactly is that different from the white meth head or the chronically unemployed? At least they're doing something. Everyone worked up over our trumped up national emergency should find a real problem to direct your recreational outrage at. You clearing don't farm. You could easily offer 1.5x minimum wage and never get enough non-immigant workers to pick you fruit. It's not about money dude, immigrants still remember how to work hard, "we" generally don't, unless we call pecking away at internet activism or driving a desk as working hard.

The boarder issue is a contributing factor to the "white meth head and chronically unemployed". Whether directly or indirectly. But they are a burden on our society. But they are Legal Citizens that we have to cope with. You can't take them out back and shoot them. We have to correct the factors that contribute to it, and drugs is a big one. Some folks will never be able to work and we as a charitable society will care for them. But we can't make programs that encourage people to not work by making it more beneficial to stay at home.

 

[antlerradar]

Trumped up crisis? Gallup says that 138 MILLION people want to come to the US and 50 million of them are south of our border. Think about that and the country we would end up with. No border would be a disaster for America. How would our kids get an education if half of the class spoke another language?

Just think about the amount of resources 50 to 138 million more people would require. It would be a staggering amount just to provide the bare minimum of food, housing and transportation. A good portion of the resources need would come from public land. Add in that most of the immigrants will be poor and uneducated. (not that is a bad thing and I can not blame them for looking to improve there life) Adding tens of millions of poor and uneducated to the country will not end well for public land. Having vast amount of undeveloped public land is a priority that only the better off can afford. Undeveloped public land will not be high on the priority list of the dirt poor new residents. They will more concerned with food, housing and some money to send back home to relatives. Public land will be looked on as something to exploit and not something to conserve.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

BUILD THE WALL BUILD THE WALL BUILD THE WALL!

Language, culture, and borders are important.

 

[ltdann]

Like I tell my WA family....If you have a burst pipe in your house, you don't repair the drywall until the water is shut off and the pipe repaired. Get control of the border, fix the monolithic nightmare that is the immigration system and make LEGAL immigrants, with all the rights and responsibilities that come with it.

 

[BigHornRam]

Just think about the amount of resources 50 to 138 million more people would require. It would be a staggering amount just to provide the bare minimum of food, housing and transportation. A good portion of the resources need would come from public land. Add in that most of the immigrants will be poor and uneducated. (not that is a bad thing and I can not blame them for looking to improve there life) Adding tens of millions of poor and uneducated to the country will not end well for public land. Having vast amount of undeveloped public land is a priority that only the better off can afford. Undeveloped public land will not be high on the priority list of the dirt poor new residents. They will more concerned with food, housing and some money to send back home to relatives. Public land will looked on as something to exploit and not something to conserve.

Can't argue with any of this. Well said.