Paul C. the salmon expert, choke on the facts.

BuzzH

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Paul, can you find some some things to refute anything in this article? Read it and weep, know-it-all. Find some evidence to refute the facts or shut your ignorant mouth.

Restoring the Lower Snake River
Saving Snake River Salmon and Saving Money
ECONOMIC ANALYSIS BY PHILIP S. LANSING, ANALYTICA
ADDITIONAL TEXT BY EVE VOGEL

Snake River salmon once swam in the millions, travelling up to 1,000 miles inland to remote Idaho, Washington, Oregon and Montana streams. Until the 1960s Snake River Chinook, sockeye, coho and steelhead provided a living resource that supported ancient cultures, a vibrant fishing industry and diverse inland ecosystems.

Today, we have almost lost this natural treasure. Snake River coho are extinct and returning Snake River sockeye can be counted on a few fingers. Snake River Chinook and steelhead are listed under the Endangered Species Act, and are only slightly further from the brink of extinction.

Restoring the Lower Snake River would save approximately $87 million each year.

The people of the Pacific Northwest and the United States care about salmon. We care enough that in the past 20 years we have spent, even by modest estimates, $1.7 billion trying to bring salmon back to healthy population levels - more than has ever been spent on any other endangered species. A 1997 poll from the Northwest's largest newspaper The Oregonian showed that salmon protection is the number one environmental concern in the state; 86 percent of Oregonians want to preserve salmon runs in the Columbia and Snake Rivers. In Washington, over 70 percent of people believe protecting wild salmon is important.

Up until now, the money we have spent has not worked to save Snake River salmon. We have paid to transport salmon for hundreds of miles in trucks or barges just to get them past dams. We have built million-dollar dam by-pass systems, and supported hatcheries just so a few young salmon will survive the gauntlet of dams. We have released water from upstream dams, foregoing some power production, to increase flows as salmon migrate through the dam-impounded reservoirs.

We have been poor stewards: our fish are still dying. It is time to stop treating the symptoms and address the root cause of their decline. Dams kill salmon. Fish die going through turbines, or become traumatized, disoriented and easy prey as they come out of dam by-pass systems, trucks and barges. Spilled over dams, young salmon smolts survive better, but when spills are managed poorly, the smolts may become afflicted with gas bubble disease, a salmon version of the bends.

Perhaps even more significantly, dams destroy rivers, and salmon need rivers. What used to be the Lower Snake River is now a series of slow-moving reservoirs. Young migrating salmon take weeks or months longer than before dam construction to find their way to the ocean. On their slow journey, they can find few places to feed in the drowned river reaches.

The dams that the Snake River salmon cannot survive are the four Lower Snake dams: Ice Harbor, Lower Monumental, Little Goose and Lower Granite. Before these dams were built, the Snake River salmon survived - albeit at reduced numbers - the hurdles of the Lower Columbia dams. Since the last of the four Lower Snake dams, Lower Granite, was built in 1975, every Snake River salmon species has been listed under the Endangered Species Act.

The four Lower Snake dams were built to provide hydroelectric power, river transportation to Lewiston, Idaho, and inexpensive irrigation. Today, they provide about 5 percent of the Pacific Northwest's electricity, allow shipment of about 3.5 million tons of grains each year, and reduce irrigation costs for thirteen large farms. These economic benefits are dwarfed by the money we have spent unsuccessfully to reduce the dams' impact on salmon.

We need to stop throwing money at failing efforts to help Snake River salmon survive the Lower Snake dams and reservoirs. We need to restore the Lower Snake River and restore the Snake River salmon.

Saving Snake River Salmon by Restoring the Snake River
Restoring a River

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Before the dams were built, the Lower Snake River flowed freely, sustaining millions of salmon.

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Currently the four dams create a series of long, slow reservoirs. Salmon die both in the reservoirs and at the dams.

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River restoration would require breaching the earthen portion of the dams and allowing the river to flow freely past the concrete structures.

Some of the largest areas of pristine salmon spawning and rearing habitat in the Northwest are in Idaho, on tributaries of the Snake River. If enough salmon can survive the trip down the Snake and Columbia Rivers and return to Idaho habitat as adults, populations can become sustainable. Scientists from the State and Tribal Fisheries Agencies' Analytical Team have predicted that if the Lower Snake River is restored, salmon populations can recover. They predict an 80 to 100 percent probability of returning spring and summer Chinook salmon populations to the levels of the 1960s within 24 years. Recovery to those levels would allow removal of these runs from the Endangered Species list, and prevent the need for expensive restoration efforts.

Until recently, it was politically unthinkable to consider removing or retiring large dams, no matter what their ecological or economic damage. Now the Army Corps of Engineers, the very agency that built and operates the Lower Snake dams, is seriously considering removing the earthen portions of the four dams to return the Lower Snake to a natural river and hence restore the salmon. Their findings are expected in an Environmental Impact Statement in 1999.

Economic Concerns and the Purpose of this Report
The proposal to restore the Lower Snake River has raised alarm in some quarters. Opponents argue that we cannot afford the economic losses that would result from losing the Lower Snake dams. The electric power, river transportation, and inexpensive irrigation they provide are seen as essential to the Northwest economy.

Given how much has already been spent to reduce the impact of the dams, it is reasonable to ask how much more it would now cost to retire the dams and restore the Snake River.

This paper addresses this question:
Would restoring the Lower Snake River to free-flowing conditions cost or save money?

This question is a bit more complex than simply adding up annual spending on keeping the dams in place and comparing it with the costs of restoring the river. What is required is a comparison of the actual net economic benefit provided by the dams at present with the net benefit that would result from river restoration.

In other words,
Which is greater: Net economic benefit of Lower Snake dams and reservoirs or net economic benefit of restored Lower Snake River?

Net economic benefit is a technical term meaning economic return to society after all costs are accounted. Net benefit is typically a positive amount, but it can be negative when hidden costs are included in the reckoning. For the Snake River dams, the benefit is negative.

Net economic benefit is very different from economic impact. An impact study might focus, for example, on the impact of a proposed course of action on a local community. There will be many different impacts in different areas if the Lower Snake River is restored, some positive and some negative. Our benefits analysis does not address local impacts. Instead, it takes a broader view and focuses on changes in overall economic wealth.

Comparing Net Economic Benefits:
Dams and Reservoirs vs. Restored River
The following table summarizes the costs and benefits provided by the Lower Snake dams and reservoirs, and by a restored Lower Snake River. This report details calculations of net benefits for both sides of this table. The results of this analysis are significant.

KEY FINDINGS: (Relevant report sections in parentheses)
The Lower Snake dams and reservoirs require the Bonneville Power Administration to spend $194.4 million every year on salmon restoration. (Section 1, p. 13, and Appendix for Section 1, pp. 26-29.)
Taxpayers and electric ratepayers subsidize electric power production, river transportation and irrigation from the Lower Snake dams and reservoirs. With all costs accounted, these three Lower Snake dam "benefits" actually produce a net benefit loss to the economy of $114 million every year. (Section 3, p. 25.)
Electric power from the Lower Snake dams is not competitive. It costs 2.44 cents per kilowatt-hour. If we restore the Lower Snake River and purchase power elsewhere, we could provide energy for 1.87 cents per kilowatt-hour. (Section 2, pp. 17-18 and Appendix for Section 2, p. 29.)
River transportation on the Lower Snake is expensive and heavily subsidized. Although river shippers pay only $1.23 per ton to go from Lewiston, Idaho to Kennewick, Washington, taxpayers and electric ratepayers pay an additional $12.66. The total cost to ship one ton of goods on the Lower Snake is $13.89. In comparison, rail costs only $1.26. (Section 2, p. 19-21 and Appendix for Section 2, pp. 30-32.)
Thirteen agribusinesses pump water from the Ice Harbor reservoir. Together, these farms earn a net $1.9 million per year. But taxpayers and electric ratepayers subsidize these farms with $11.2 million. If the farms paid their full costs, they would lose $9.3 million every year. It would be cheaper to buy these farms outright and end their production altogether. (Section 2, pp. 22-24 and Appendix for Section 2, pp. 32-34.)


ECONOMIC BENEFITS AND COSTS OF LOWER SNAKE DAMS AND RESERVOIRS

BENEFITS

Hydroelectric power generation
River transportation
Greater returns to farmers who use inexpensive irrigation water pumping
COSTS

Operations and maintenance
Salmon restoration spending
Support for river transportation and irrigation
ECONOMIC BENEFITS AND COSTS OF RESTORED LOWER SNAKE RIVER

BENEFITS

End expensive, failing salmon restoration
End dam operations and maintenance
End navigation and irrigation supports
Restored fishery
COSTS

Removing earthen dam, re-routing roads, etc.
Replace power
Replace transportation
Irrigator buyout or additional support



We make two major assumptions in calculating net benefits. First, we assume ALL power generation constraints adopted to restore Snake River salmon under the Endangered Species Act will be removed if salmon are restored and thus removed from Endangered Species Act protection. Second, we assume there are benefits from restored Snake River fisheries but their calculations are beyond the purview of this paper. The first assumption increases our calculated economic benefit with river restoration and the second assumption decreases it.

Restoring the
Lower Snake River
would save approximately $87 million each year.

Conclusion
Restoring the Lower Snake River would produce an economic benefit of $87 million each year. This includes the costs of replacing Snake River hydro-power, ending the barge transportation system, and buying out the thirteen farms that use Lower Snake water for irrigation.

Restoring the River:
Summary of Net Yearly Costs and Benefits
The following tables summarize the money lost to the economy because of the Lower Snake dams and reservoirs and the economic losses caused by a restored Lower Snake River. The difference is the savings that would result each year from retiring the four Lower Snake dams and restoring the Lower Snake River.

COSTS WITH DAMS:
Managing dams and reservoirs.
The Snake River dams and reservoirs require on-going operations and maintenance. They also cause damage to the Snake River salmon. Government agencies and society pay for this damage when we haul salmon, flush water for fish instead of electric power turbines and otherwise attempt to make the dams and reservoirs less lethal to fish.

Providing hydropower, river transportation and irrigation.
Transportation and irrigation as provided by the dam-reservoir system are heavily subsidized by taxpayers and electricity ratepayers. U.S. taxpayers subsidize production of crops that are irrigated by water pumped with subsidized electricity. Local taxpayers support the ports necessary for river transportation. Water consumed by irrigation and river transportation cannot be used to produce power; electricity ratepayers' costs are higher because of this foregone power.

In addition, grain shippers pay a fee to ship goods; this private cost is an additional cost of river transportation.
ANNUAL COSTS WITH DAMS:
$ (MILLIONS)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Managing dams and reservoirs
Operations and maintenance .................... $33.6

Salmon restoration spending ................... $194.4


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Providing hydropower, river
transportation and irrigation
Transportation costs .................................... $6.4

Irrigation costs ........................................... $1.8


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


TOTAL ANNUAL COSTS

WITH DAMS: ......................................... $236.2

COSTS WITH RESTORED RIVER
Restoring and managing a restored Lower Snake River.
Restoring the Lower Snake River would require physically removing the earthen portion of the dams and re-routing infrastructure like roads and bridges. Operations, maintenance and salmon restoration spending would be unnecessary in a natural river.

Providing electric power and river transportation.
We assume that if the Snake River is restored, hydroelectric power and river transportation may need to be replaced with other sources of power and shipping.

Loss of irrigation.
Although irrigation pump in-takes could be extended to natural river level to make irrigation possible even with the Lower Snake River restored, it is an expensive proposition and one whose full economic effects are unknown. We calculate benefit assuming that irrigated lands are purchased outright and their farm production is lost.
ANNUAL COSTS
WITH RESTORED RIVER :
$ (MILLIONS)


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Restoring and Managing
restored Lower Snake River
Restoration .............................................. $25.6

Operations, maintenance and Snake River

salmon restoration ..................................... $0.0


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Providing electric power and river transportation
Replacement power ................................ $115.6

Alternative transportation ............................ $4.4


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Loss of irrigation
Purchasing lands ........................................ $2.0

Loss of net crop returns ............................... $1.9


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TOTAL ANNUAL COSTS

WITH RESTORED RIVER: ............ $149.5



Next Chapter

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Paul, make sure you read this part here:

"Taxpayers and electric ratepayers subsidize electric power production, river transportation and irrigation from the Lower Snake dams and reservoirs. With all costs accounted, these three Lower Snake dam "benefits" actually produce a net benefit loss to the economy of $114 million every year. (Section 3, p. 25.)"

Make sure you also realize that we've spent 1.7 billion on salmon recovery in the Columbia. Guess who pays for that? The same taxpayers that pay the net loss of the dams to the tune of 114 million. Keep working Paul, we need your tax dollars badly.

I wonder if we'd ever spend anything close to 2 billion to increase the efficiency of the remaining 207 dams in the Columbia River Basin to offset the less than 5% loss of power by breaching 4 useless and costly dams? What do you think Paul, give us your expert opinion.

I wonder how you'll feel when the tribes sue and win their 350 billion dollar lawsuit agains the US for breaking treaty rights in regards to salmon. Got the check book handy Paul?

I'm eagerly awaiting your responses, an expert like you should have no problem finding some facts to back up your foolish statements. Until then....
 
Buzz, Thanks!
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Paul anyone else who thinks the dams shouldn't be breached, After you study Phil's report I'd like you to try to refute it with FACTS, not just your opinions (which some of you often confuse with actual facts
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). Good luck!
 
Paul, heres another little fact sheet for you to look at...still feel like you're right about anadromous fish?

The Three Options

STATUS QUO - The options are fairly simple to understand. The first would continue the status quo. In the last fifteen years, we have spent $3 billion dollars in taxpayer and Bonneville Power Administration (BPA) ratepayer monies to halt salmon and steelhead decline. Considering that our wild stocks have continued to plummet, in spite of these expenditures, this option would surely lead to extinction.

INCREASE BARGING AND FLOW AUGMENTATION - The second option would increase barging and flow augmentation. Not once since the completion of the lower Snake dams has the Corps achieved its own goal of smolt to adult returns. Science tells us that we need at least two percent of the outgoing juvenile salmon to return as adults to sustain just a skeletal population. Right now, the smolt to adult ratio is .4 percent. That is one fifth the number we need just to hold the line.

Flow augmentation is a highly contentious issue. Right now, 427,000 acre feet of water from is released from southern Idaho downriver to aid outgoing fish. Under option two, that amount would incrase by one to three million acre-feet. A rough estimate of this action would dry up about 350,000 acres of farmland on the upper Snake River. This is not a wise option for southern Idaho. It would surely cost some hard-working Idahoans their farms.

There is no increase in flow augmentation in the plan to bypass dams. In fact, The National Marine Fisheries Service states in a recent report that bypassing the dams might remove the need for flow augmentation altogether. In addition, the Idaho Department of Fish and Game has stated that bypassing the dams would remove the biological need for flow augmentation.

NATURAL RIVER OPTION - The third option is the "natural river option." It would remove the earthen portions of the four dams on the lower Snake River. This option is clearly the best means to restore our fisheries to viable, fishable levels. Virtually all of the scienctists, including the Idaho Department of Fish and Game and more than two hundred Pacific Northwest scientists, agree that this will bring our fish back.

The Case for Retiring Four Lower Snake River Dams
Sound Science - Science cannot provide guarantees of potential salmon recovery measures, but it can provide solid evidence for what does and doesn't work.

The Status Quo Doesn't Work - Major independent reviews, including studies by the Independent Scientific Advisory Board and the joint science group called PATH, have concluded that neither fish barging and trucking, nor current in-river conditions, can restore Snake River salmon (ISG 1996; PATH 1998). Fish survivals under either option would have to at least triple just to stabilize runs at their current levels. There is no evidence such survival increases are possible.

Retiring and Modifying Dams Will Work - State and Tribal fish agency studies indicate that lower Snake dam retirement has an 80-95% probability of rebuilding Snake River stocks (PATH 1998). A 1995 state/tribal study estimates that retiring the lower Snake dams and operating John Day at spillway crest offers an 80-100% probability of restoring Snake River runs within 24 years (STFA 1995). Salmon scientists point to the relative success of Hanford Reach fall chinook salmon - the only upriver Columbia stock with substantial free-flowing habitat - as a model for rebuilding endangered stocks (ISG 1996).

Flood Control - The four lower Snake River dams provide no flood control. Lowering John Day Reservoir would actually increase its flood control capacity.

Replaceable and Affordable Power - The four lower Snake dams produce 1239 average megawatts (MW) - 5% of the region's power needs. Since 1979, the Northwest has saved more than 1000 MW through energy conservation, and the Northwest Power Planning Council estimates another 1535 MW can be conserved at current energy prices, with the west coast power market providing additional supplies (NPPC 1996). We will not need more fossil fuel plants.

Market prices of power, not the costs of retiring dams, will determine how well Bonneville Power Administration and its customers fare in coming decades. The worst case, based on recent analysis by the Northwest Power Planning Council staff, is a $2-3 per month increase in the average BPA customer's electric bill - customers whose rates today are 40% below the national average.

Minimal Irrigation Impacts - Only one of the lower Snake dams provides irrigation water, to 13 farms with 36,000 acres. These farms can continue to draw water from the lower river level by extending their intake pipes and pumps.

Grain Can Be Shipped in Trucks or Trains - Commercial navigation on the lower Snake River would cease if these dams are retired. Due to current subsidies, the overall economy will actually save money - an estimated $39.4 million (ONRC 1998). Shippers who now use the barge system, primarily grain shippers, can be compensated for the small difference between barge rates and truck/train rates (Jessup et al 1997).

Recent economic studies from Washington State University show that railroads and trucks can replace the lost barge traffic with relatively low infrastructure investments into the system. They predict that shipping costs for grain farmers, with public investment in grain cars, would most likely stay within one cent per bushel of the current rates.

The Northwest Economy Will Grow - Restored Snake River salmon will increase sport and commercial fishing from California to Alaska, helping revitalize communities like Astoria, Oregon and Wesport, Washington. In Idaho alone, restored salmon and steelhead would create a $150 million annual economy, supporting 4500 jobs (Reading 1996).

References:

ISG. 1996. Return to the river: restoration of salmonid fishes in the Columbia River ecosystem. Independent Scientific Advisory Board report to the Northwest Power Planning Council. Portland OR.

Jessup, E.L., J. Ellis and K. Casavant. 1997. A GIS commodity flow model for transportation policy analysis: a case study of the impacts of a Snake River drawdown. Eastern Washington Intermodal Transport Study research report #18. Pullman WA.

NPPC 1996. Draft fourth Northwest conservation and electric power plan: Northwest power in transition. Northwest Power Planning Council, March 13, 1996.

ONRC. 1998. Restoring the lower Snake River: saving salmon and saving money. Oregon Natural Resources Council. 1998.

PATH. 1998. Preliminary decision analysis report on Snake River spring/summer chinook. Compiled and edited by ESSA Technologies Ltd. Reading. 1996. The economic impact of steelhead fishing and the return of salmon fishing in Idaho. Idaho Fish and Wildlife Foundation. Boise ID.

STFA. 1995. Preliminary summary of spring/summer chinook model results for the 1995 Biological Opinion. State and Tribal Fisheries Agencies' Analytical Team report submitted to the NMFS Endangered Species Act record.


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Support our salmon work!
 
Buzz,

You still don't get it. Until you disconnect the electricity from your house, and everything else that you use and buy then you are as much to blame for the salmon decline than anyone else.

From your post:

BENEFITS

Hydroelectric power generation


So until you cut the power from your house, or find a replacement for the lost electricity produced by the breeched dams, shut your hypocritical mouth or move to Canada.

Paul

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-11-2003 12:12: Message edited by: Paul C ]</font>
 
Paul, theres no good reason for me to disconnect my electricity. Whats the reason?

I'm a hypocrit, but not on this issue. Every feasible problem, including the loss of a tiny bit of electricity from the removal of the dams, has been answered and mitigated. Its all in the reports, read the reports instead of talking shit.

I'm all for mitigating any and all problems including the welfare barging system, the loss of electricity, the welfare irrigation system, etc. The reports I've given you demonstrate how it can happen...and still save the tax-payer an incredible amount of money. Take the savings and use it to increase dam efficiency on the remaining 207 dams. Build some more wind turbines, etc. etc. etc.

Now, if you're so ignorant to not support a system that would:

1. Save the taxpayers 100's of millions.
2. Keep endangered Salmon from going extinct
3. Support a very lucrative fishing economy that would result from an increase in fish.


Then I dont know what to say, other than you must like to throw your tax dollars down the drain and enjoy paying high taxes in general. Not real smart if you ask me, but hey, whatever makes you happy.
 
No Paul, You're not getting it. There are cheaper replacements for the small amount of electricity generated at the Snake River dams. We'd all be better off without it--even you!
biggrin.gif


Until you get to the point where you can logically and unemotionally analyze all the scientific data available on this issue you're just wasting our time.
rolleyes.gif
 
Paul, should we talk about the economics involved in sport fishing? Do you suppose an increase in salmon would add to this total? Should we continue to let salmon stocks decrease and COST the tax payer or produce economic gain like this:

Sport fishing creates nearly 1.2 million jobs nationwide. New studies now show that annual spending by America's 35.2 million adult anglers (16 years old and older) amounts to a whopping $37.8 billion. By comparison, if sport fishing were a corporation it would be in thirteenth place on the fortune 500 list of America's largest business, ranking above such global giants at Texaco and
DuPont.


If we consider the "ripple" effect this figure grows tremendously. When economists at the American Sportfishing Association (ASA) "crunched" the numbers they saw that anglers' annual spending was shown to have:

$ Created a nationwide economic impact of about $108.4 billion.

$ Supported 1.2 million jobs, or slightly more than 1 percent of America's entire civilian labor force, in all sectors of the American economy.

$ Created household income (Salaries and wages) totaling $28.3 billion, which is roughly equivalent to almost half of America's entire military payroll.

$ Added $2.4 billion to state tax revenues, or nearly 1 percent of all annual state tax revenues combined.

$ Contributed $3.1 billion in federal income taxes, which equates to nearly a third of the entire federal budget for agriculture.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-11-2003 12:38: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>
 
Buzz and Ithaca,

Your data is flawed and does not address a lot of the concerns voiced by everyone that has debated you guys on this and similar threads.

Buzz, how would you have voted if you could have, for the Buy the Dams Innitiative in Montana last election.

Paul
 
Hey Paul, maybe you should convince the residents of Alaska to build dams on the Kenai, Alagnak, etc. so they dont have to turn off their electricity. They too can then get in on the great economic drain to the tax-payer known as dams...while at the same time getting rid of that Pesky sport fishing industry that only provides their economy with:

"U.S. anglers who went fishing in Alaska during 1996 spent over $548,364,000 for goods and services in many businesses throughout the state. The economic impact of these expenditures totaled nearly $956,793,000 and rippled throughout the economy with effects felt throughout the state. These impacts sustained old jobs and created new ones. They generated sales and income taxes which benefited government agency programs at all levels. In many small communities, angler expenditures were central to economic health and growth."
 
Paul, it isnt my data, and it sure as hell isnt flawed. Beings how you know more than everyone involved...should I provide some phone numbers so you can straighten out the experts? Go ahead and start with the Authors of the PATH report.

Please point out any USER GROUP that hasnt been addressed in the PATH report.

They've all been addressed and if you'd read the god-damn report you'd know it too.

Keep your head in the sand, its really what you're best at.
 
Paul, I know this about the dams in MT:

If the state buys them, they're assuming a huge risk and a long-term liability. Dams are a problem, need constant and expensive maintainance, etc.

Do you think Montana should start its purchasing with the rights and responsiblities associated with Milltown dam? Would that be a good investment for the tax-payers of MT?

I dont, but again, whatever makes you happy. Personally, I'd rather not have the state responsible for all the problems, but thats just me.
 
Paul, "Buzz and Ithaca, Your data is flawed and does not address a lot of the concerns voiced by everyone that has debated you guys on this and similar threads."

Paul, your head is flawed.
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Why don't you try pointing out where any data is flawed and refute it with any data you can come up with? Without anything to back up your statements you look kinda foolish.
 
Paul, You call that a debate? Look at the total amount of information in your posts and then look at what the other side posted!
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You never even supplied ONE fact!
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Good luck bear hunting. I hope you're better at that than debating!
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<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-11-2003 17:57: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
 
IT, Like I said before that report is incomplete, and unrealistic in many estimate$.
rolleyes.gif


Good biasing of an economic report for environmental agendas.

I beleive that the dams need to be breached, not removed (another debate for another day). Are you aware that breached dams can be altered to still generate power?

I'm glad that there is the prospect of increasing the runs, but there are other environmental issues locked behind those dams.

I have some salmon inthe smoker now, and I will be going and getting some MORE salmon next week.
 
very interesting, you buzz and ithaca have supplied all of the info,and as far as the salmon vs. the dam`s goes the fact`s seem to be overwhelming, but i find some thing`s such as how much money that fisherman spend to be misleading,[wouldn`t they spend their money anyway ] if not on fishing then on something else? or do you think they would save it.
 
Cj,

The fisherman will not spend their money in Kooskia, Orifino, Ahsaka, Riggins, etcc... etc.. They will instead spend their money where the fish are, places like Soldotna, Kenai, Homer, Craig and others.
 
cj, When the fishing is good do more people buy fishing licenses and equipment? Fishing equipment has an excise tax on it that comes back to the states.

Fishing stimulates the local economy (that's why the people of Kamiah want a local salmon season--see the other thread). Would you rather see people fishing or playing golf? The more people we get involved in outdoor recreation the stronger our F&G departments will be and the better off all sportsmen will be---hunters included.

I think it's more a matter of people using their discretionary spending for fishing instead of the other options. I think people take money out of their savings accounts to buy boats and go fishing.
 

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