One gun to do it all .25 sst (Sherman short tactical)

[Mustangs Rule]

Ohh and I would pose that same question to any and all guys reading this post. What all around rifle ,,would you chose. Mine or the one this post is about.

 

[FlatlanderAZ]

Ohh and I would pose that same question to any and all guys reading this post. What all around rifle ,,would you chose. Mine or the one this post is about.

Neat question. Maybe you should start a post about it.

I chose the .25 SST. My 72 lb 13 yo isn’t going to be shooting a .35 caliber bullet traveling 2800 FPS. But thanks for raising my awareness.

 

[MTLabrador]

I could be wrong, but I don’t think stopping charging brown bears is high on the list of needs in Arizona.

 

[std7mag]

A "back angling shot"???

If i want to shoot something in the @$$, it would be with a wad of paper with a decent sized rubberband...

I've learned to pick & choose my shots, long ago.

 

[mtmuley]

Ohh and I would pose that same question to any and all guys reading this post. What all around rifle ,,would you chose. Mine or the one this post is about.

Neither. My criteria is different. mtmuley

 

[Mustangs Rule]

A "back angling shot"???

If i want to shoot something in the @$$, it would be with a wad of paper with a decent sized rubberband...

I've learned to pick & choose my shots, long ago.

Back angling, not straight going away. A very common shot. If an animal is not totally frightened, they lope way with enough angle to look back and see me, or anything they are concerned about. Putting a bullet just behind the last rib ahead of the hips is an easy shot when close and they are not going all out.

With the right gun, and keeping that bullet high it will do tremendous damge, go diaginally right through the lungs and be kind to meat aned not hit any guts

I have taken that shot many many times when still hunting and putting up a game animal out of it's bed or from, a canoe.

What it takes to feel real comfortable with shot like that is lots and lots of real time practice.

That is what I got with my 35 Whelen with 158 grain pistol bullets pushed by a super light charge of Unique pistol powder. This has has the recoil of a 38 speicial. In a rifle it amouts to nothing. This is a great confidence builder for new shooters. I have broken many in with my Whelens. With the 180 grain TTSX-BT's it is of mild recoil.

Hunting antelope in high mountain meadows surrounded by Aspens was a delight.

Regarding placing you shots,,,that is all well and good when you have the time. I used to do a lot of solo hunting by canoe. It is a very quck game, go around a bend in small river, there is the deer, put the paddle down grab th rifle an shoot. It is legal is thier is no motor on the canoe

Practice practice practice is what it takes. Some years back I was hunting hares and grouse with my whelen in Alaska. When you do that a lot, putting a bullet behind the last rib of a large game animal close and trotting away is duck soup.

When my gunsmith worked the stock, he put a subtle bannna dip in it. So when i am using iron sights I can bring my cheek forward in it and the iron sights line right up.That was real commom with Afrian riflle way back when scopes first came out.

Last thought,,,with all the new powders the 35 Whelen has really gotten modern

 

[std7mag]

Back angling, not straight going away. A very common shot. If an animal is not totally frightened, they lope way with enough angle to look back and see me, or anything they are concerned about. Putting a bullet just behind the last rib ahead of the hips is an easy shot when close and they are not going all out.

With the right gun, and keeping that bullet high it will do tremendous damge, go diaginally right through the lungs and be kind to meat aned not hit any guts

I have taken that shot many many times when still hunting and putting up a game animal out of it's bed or from, a canoe.

What it takes to feel real comfortable with shot like that is lots and lots of real time practice.

That is what I got with my 35 Whelen with 158 grain pistol bullets pushed by a super light charge of Unique pistol powder. This has has the recoil of a 38 speicial. In a rifle it amouts to nothing. This is a great confidence builder for new shooters. I have broken many in with my Whelens. With the 180 grain TTSX-BT's it is of mild recoil.

Hunting antelope in high mountain meadows surrounded by Aspens was a delight.

Regarding placing you shots,,,that is all well and good when you have the time. I used to do a lot of solo hunting by canoe. It is a very quck game, go around a bend in small river, there is the deer, put the paddle down grab th rifle an shoot. It is legal is thier is no motor on the canoe

Practice practice practice is what it takes. Some years back I was hunting hares and grouse with my whelen in Alaska. When you do that a lot, putting a bullet behind the last rib of a large game animal close and trotting away is duck soup.

When my gunsmith worked the stock, he put a subtle bannna dip in it. So when i am using iron sights I can bring my cheek forward in it and the iron sights line right up.That was real commom with Afrian riflle way back when scopes first came out.

Last thought,,,with all the new powders the 35 Whelen has really gotten modern

Ah, now i understand.

And i've taken 2 does with that shot using my 257 Roberts.
One with 115gr Ballistic Tip. One with 115gr Berger VLD.
Biggest difference is the Ballistic Tip exited the other side, just in front of the shoulder.
The Berger didn't exit, and made mush of the heart & lungs.
The Ballistic Tip wasn't gentle with them either, just not quite as much internal damage.

 

[Mustangs Rule]

Ah, now i understand.

And i've taken 2 does with that shot using my 257 Roberts.
One with 115gr Ballistic Tip. One with 115gr Berger VLD.
Biggest difference is the Ballistic Tip exited the other side, just in front of the shoulder.
The Berger didn't exit, and made mush of the heart & lungs.
The Ballistic Tip wasn't gentle with them either, just not quite as much internal damage.

Hello STD7mag.



Thank you for your contribution to this post. You offer signs of good field experience as a hunter.



The angling away shot is very lethal and with prior field marksmanship practice, it can be duck soup within certain boundaries, one of which is “Using Enough Gun”. Boy did the fir and feathers fly when I introduced that as a Hunt Talk post topic a few months back.



I greatly admire the .257 Roberts. Wish I never sold mine, I had one eons ago,,almost half a century back. It was in a Remington 722 with a 3x scope. I lived near the Mexican Border then and hunted desert deer in cactus tangles with 117 grain Hornady round nosed bullets. Playing cat and mouse in those tangles I used the rear angling shot quite a lot.



I think for a rifle to be of “do it all” standing it must be able to do the difficult shots too. Not just the easy ones,,,,and the going away angle shot,,,still or moving is an important shot to be competent with.



I would place .25 caliber as a very capable choice for deer,,,but I would not go less at all and would not go any further than deer or antelope with 25 caliber.



The rear angling shot needs “enough gun” to make that diagonal journey thru muscle, organs, diaphragm, before getting to the heart lung area.. Pea shooters will poop out.



I went up to the 260 and 6.5x55 Swede, both with long heavy bullets for deer, always ready for that angle away shot. I have probably taken 10 deer using it.



In the field when hunting I always keep a heavy for caliber round nosed bullet in my chamber for sudden close up work. In my magazine the bullet next is lighter and long range friendly. Seeing game at a distance I can bolt the round nose out and feed the high BC bullet in.



Of course I have my points of impact all figured in to match. The round nosed bullets are pretty much dead on and the spritzers are 2 to 2.5 high at 100 yards. Most of my game animals have fallen to round nosed bullets at very short range. I have never taken an elk over 200 yards, most much closer. I took my desert bighorn ram at 125 yards after a long stalk.



All this super long range sniper rifle mind set is really doing hunters a bad turn in the long run. I see the guys at the range,,,shooting from a bench using bipods. So rarely do they practice offhand, much less other shooting skills. Like the fast swing, sustained lead or snap shot for shooting game up close and moving well withing reason for a secure shot.



With the going away angle shot, the worst thing is too much lead. That will put the bullet into the front shoulder,,,tear it up but leave the game animal able to run off.



Jack O'Connor once said the professor of running shooting was rabbits, jacks or cottontails and using downloads in your hunting rifle. Hunting rabbits with a big game rifle is so important.



Decades ago I was a licensed hunting guide. Mostly for wild boar,,,huge black Russians. It was a year round affair too. Before I would take anybody out, I would tell them I wanted to see them shoot first. That is what is required in Europe. I wanted to see what they were capable of so that I could construct a hunt which would allow them success. Most of them came up with big rifles with bipods and when in the field they needed certain conditions to shoot well, a rock pile, a ridge top, a fallen log, Other wise they were pretty limited.



I think I would enjoy hunting with you based on your post,,,using enough gun for your game, no pea shooters, being skilled enough to make those shots,,,,,good on you.



There now,,,the rain ended,,,bright sunny skies,,,time to get outside with the fly rod and start casting and stop writing..



MR.

 

[Don Fischer]

Hello STD7mag.



Thank you for your contribution to this post. You offer signs of good field experience as a hunter.



The angling away shot is very lethal and with prior field marksmanship practice, it can be duck soup within certain boundaries, one of which is “Using Enough Gun”. Boy did the fir and feathers fly when I introduced that as a Hunt Talk post topic a few months back.



I greatly admire the .257 Roberts. Wish I never sold mine, I had one eons ago,,almost half a century back. It was in a Remington 722 with a 3x scope. I lived near the Mexican Border then and hunted desert deer in cactus tangles with 117 grain Hornady round nosed bullets. Playing cat and mouse in those tangles I used the rear angling shot quite a lot.



I think for a rifle to be of “do it all” standing it must be able to do the difficult shots too. Not just the easy ones,,,,and the going away angle shot,,,still or moving is an important shot to be competent with.



I would place .25 caliber as a very capable choice for deer,,,but I would not go less at all and would not go any further than deer or antelope with 25 caliber.



The rear angling shot needs “enough gun” to make that diagonal journey thru muscle, organs, diaphragm, before getting to the heart lung area.. Pea shooters will poop out.



I went up to the 260 and 6.5x55 Swede, both with long heavy bullets for deer, always ready for that angle away shot. I have probably taken 10 deer using it.



In the field when hunting I always keep a heavy for caliber round nosed bullet in my chamber for sudden close up work. In my magazine the bullet next is lighter and long range friendly. Seeing game at a distance I can bolt the round nose out and feed the high BC bullet in.



Of course I have my points of impact all figured in to match. The round nosed bullets are pretty much dead on and the spritzers are 2 to 2.5 high at 100 yards. Most of my game animals have fallen to round nosed bullets at very short range. I have never taken an elk over 200 yards, most much closer. I took my desert bighorn ram at 125 yards after a long stalk.



All this super long range sniper rifle mind set is really doing hunters a bad turn in the long run. I see the guys at the range,,,shooting from a bench using bipods. So rarely do they practice offhand, much less other shooting skills. Like the fast swing, sustained lead or snap shot for shooting game up close and moving well withing reason for a secure shot.



With the going away angle shot, the worst thing is too much lead. That will put the bullet into the front shoulder,,,tear it up but leave the game animal able to run off.



Jack O'Connor once said the professor of running shooting was rabbits, jacks or cottontails and using downloads in your hunting rifle. Hunting rabbits with a big game rifle is so important.



Decades ago I was a licensed hunting guide. Mostly for wild boar,,,huge black Russians. It was a year round affair too. Before I would take anybody out, I would tell them I wanted to see them shoot first. That is what is required in Europe. I wanted to see what they were capable of so that I could construct a hunt which would allow them success. Most of them came up with big rifles with bipods and when in the field they needed certain conditions to shoot well, a rock pile, a ridge top, a fallen log, Other wise they were pretty limited.



I think I would enjoy hunting with you based on your post,,,using enough gun for your game, no pea shooters, being skilled enough to make those shots,,,,,good on you.



There now,,,the rain ended,,,bright sunny skies,,,time to get outside with the fly rod and start casting and stop writing..



MR.

I like your comment on long range, right on! Long range to me is 300yds at which I have ever shot only one time! generally I've killed everything at about 200yds or less. I seldom ever take running shots or those going away shots. Only thing I have to really practice on is live animals. I like to know one shot will probably do it. Long range is not hunting, it's shooting and nothing more. people dream up reason's for doing it but in truth there is never a shot you have to take unless it a charging dangerous game animal at close range! I sight all my rifle's in for MPBR at an 8" target and everyone of them will allow me to shoot around 275 yds which is farther than I usually shoot.

 

[ImBillT]

Bill, you quoted me. If I meant cartridge I would have said cartridge. I’m cracking up at all the 6.5 guys (yes, you’re one of them) who get all defensive when someone chooses anything other than a 6.5 diameter bullet.

In this case I chose the .25 SST cartridge because it provides exceptional KE at a very low recoil. For my needs, with 3 kids who are very small framed and recoil sensitive, the advantage of being able to provide fantastic performance at such low recoil out weighs the selection of bullets available. I know a few other people who already have great results with this caliber so I don’t need 40 bullets to choose from.

Also, it seems a few folks believe every .25 is a .25-06. I would suggest those folks do a little more research.

Finally, I chose .25 over 6.5 because I wanted something unique. This is unique and will meet all of our typical needs and then some. If I ever make it to Alaska for moose or Africa for Cape buffalo I will take my Win Mag, for everything else this will do just fine.

Don’t use the noun “round” when referring to the measurement of diameter.

If you think that I think that 6.5/.264” bores are somehow superior to any other then you’re mistaken, and fail to understand my posts. The inferiority of .257” cartridges is not based on their diameter, but based on the variety and availability of projectiles. The fact that just .007” away there is a plethora of bullets is why the primary reason to go .257” is “because I wanted to” rather than something else. Neck ANY .257” cartridge to .264” and performance is almost unchanged but options have been multiplied by a huge factor.

Do I always do the practical? No! Sometimes I do things just because I want to. Sometimes I do things for a very slight edge at a very niche activity. When I do either of the above, I don’t pretend that it’s the best solution for anyone and everyone out there. By all means, build and enjoy a .257” cartridge if that’s what you want to do. It just doesn’t offer any great advantage over the same exact case in a .264”.

Plenty of other bore diameters are great. A few(.257”/.277”/.311”/.318”/.323”come to mind) have a substantial lack of options. I would own multiple 8x57s IF there was a plethora of .323” bullets on the market. Instead, I will likely someday own a 30x57 and 338x57 someday, and even those will be at a disadvantage because wildcats are always a little extra effort even if bullets are everywhere.

 

[Don Fischer]

Don’t use the noun “round” when referring to the measurement of diameter.

If you think that I think that 6.5/.264” bores are somehow superior to any other then you’re mistaken, and fail to understand my posts. The inferiority of .257” cartridges is not based on their diameter, but based on the variety and availability of projectiles. The fact that just .007” away there is a plethora of bullets is why the primary reason to go .257” is “because I wanted to” rather than something else. Neck ANY .257” cartridge to .264” and performance is almost unchanged but options have been multiplied by a huge factor.

Do I always do the practical? No! Sometimes I do things just because I want to. Sometimes I do things for a very slight edge at a very niche activity. When I do either of the above, I don’t pretend that it’s the best solution for anyone and everyone out there. By all means, build and enjoy a .257” cartridge if that’s what you want to do. It just doesn’t offer any great advantage over the same exact case in a .264”.

Plenty of other bore diameters are great. A few(.257”/.277”/.311”/.318”/.323”come to mind) have a substantial lack of options. I would own multiple 8x57s IF there was a plethora of .323” bullets on the market. Instead, I will likely someday own a 30x57 and 338x57 someday, and even those will be at a disadvantage because wildcats are always a little extra effort even if bullets are everywhere.

I'm one of the 6.5 guy's, really like them. But I do believe that what makes them so good is they are the first caliber that has what I'd call suitable bullet's for game larger than deer. There is no doubt in my mind if I needed meat and an elk was standing there; I do my part with a 22 LR and it's going in the freezer. Doesn't make the 22 LR a good elk cartridge. I have a 25-06 and have shot a lot of deer with it and if it was all I had to hunt elk with no problem but, step up to 6.5 and the bullet selection get's a whole lot better. I think one of the best suited caliber's for all of the country beside's the 30 cal is the 7mm's. Again it come's down to bullet's! Take a 25-06 and load it with those 131gr custom bullet's and which rifle you gonna load it in that you can seat the bullet well out and still get the round in the magazine? How about out far enough to stay off the lands? I used a 7mm Rem mag at one time in an L61 Sako. Opted for 160gr bullet's, for me just to much velocity for lighter bullet's, they didn't hold together. Nice thing about that Sako is the action was long enough to seat the bullet's out but the lands stopped it. Easy fix, loaded a round with a 160gr bullet and had a gunsmith take out the lands to fit that round. I don't believe any rifle, maybe a L61, would have a magazine long enough to allow that. You'd have to sink the bullet into the case. And then with the extra long non standard bullet you'd run up against twist rate. Standard 25-06 barrel twist handle a long 131ga bullet? I have a problem with my 6.5x55 in a Winchester Featherweight. And that is the short magazine and long throat. Won't let me anywhere near the lands! In this case I think the throat is simply to long. For guy's that don't care, no problem but for myself I like the base of the bullet at the junction of the neck/shoulder and just off the lands if I can, can't in that mod 70 but pretty much stuck where I'm at I think. But that rifle does handle 140gr bullet's into the case a bit very well.

 

[ImBillT]

I'm one of the 6.5 guy's, really like them. But I do believe that what makes them so good is they are the first caliber that has what I'd call suitable bullet's for game larger than deer. There is no doubt in my mind if I needed meat and an elk was standing there; I do my part with a 22 LR and it's going in the freezer. Doesn't make the 22 LR a good elk cartridge. I have a 25-06 and have shot a lot of deer with it and if it was all I had to hunt elk with no problem but, step up to 6.5 and the bullet selection get's a whole lot better. I think one of the best suited caliber's for all of the country beside's the 30 cal is the 7mm's. Again it come's down to bullet's! Take a 25-06 and load it with those 131gr custom bullet's and which rifle you gonna load it in that you can seat the bullet well out and still get the round in the magazine? How about out far enough to stay off the lands? I used a 7mm Rem mag at one time in an L61 Sako. Opted for 160gr bullet's, for me just to much velocity for lighter bullet's, they didn't hold together. Nice thing about that Sako is the action was long enough to seat the bullet's out but the lands stopped it. Easy fix, loaded a round with a 160gr bullet and had a gunsmith take out the lands to fit that round. I don't believe any rifle, maybe a L61, would have a magazine long enough to allow that. You'd have to sink the bullet into the case. And then with the extra long non standard bullet you'd run up against twist rate. Standard 25-06 barrel twist handle a long 131ga bullet? I have a problem with my 6.5x55 in a Winchester Featherweight. And that is the short magazine and long throat. Won't let me anywhere near the lands! In this case I think the throat is simply to long. For guy's that don't care, no problem but for myself I like the base of the bullet at the junction of the neck/shoulder and just off the lands if I can, can't in that mod 70 but pretty much stuck where I'm at I think. But that rifle does handle 140gr bullet's into the case a bit very well.

I really think you’re mostly rewording what I’m trying to say. What makes .264” cartridges so good, is not that .264” is good, it’s that there are abundant bullet options. Yes, a 25-06, and most, if not all, factory rifles in .257” cartridges were designed for 120gr lead core bullets, but a guy building custom isn’t hampered by that. It is a big deterrent to bullet manufacturers though. It’s hard to convince them to build a bullet that most factory rifles will not be able to shoot.

 

[Mustangs Rule]

I like your comment on long range, right on! Long range to me is 300yds at which I have ever shot only one time! generally I've killed everything at about 200yds or less. I seldom ever take running shots or those going away shots. Only thing I have to really practice on is live animals. I like to know one shot will probably do it. Long range is not hunting, it's shooting and nothing more. people dream up reason's for doing it but in truth there is never a shot you have to take unless it a charging dangerous game animal at close range! I sight all my rifle's in for MPBR at an 8" target and everyone of them will allow me to shoot around 275 yds which is farther than I usually shoot.

Good to hear from Don.

I have a 6.5x55 in Wincheter 70 featherweight without the problem you described????

My old master gunsmith once said 300 yards was a long long shot. I have never needed more,,,,maybe just the way I hunt?

Regarding taking running shots. Here is my progression. When an early teen, I started reading everything Jack O'connor wrote.

He had a chapter once about running shots. In it he had these drawings of old bicicyle wheel and parts being used to have a moving pulley target. We did that and shot at them with our .22's Next rolled the tires down a hill with a target inside. Then I hunted rabbits with my 22/410 savage.

Next the guys I first hunted eastern whitatails with had a tradition of shooting so quickly when a deer was close. I saw that it could be done.

When I moved out west I followed Jack's advice about shooting Jackrabbits on the desert. I started getting good at it,,,the quicker I shot the better.

Then in my mountains I created a real cool active shooting course. There were some old telgraph cables to fire stations from days gone by. The wire were often still high on poles.

I set up a target on a pulley that came zooming down a steep hill then ran flat and fast for 25 yards. I shot many hundreds of light loads with my Whelen.

Next came pigland. I began to take some shots at them running slow and and it seemed so easy. Up close, then even further away when they were running flat out

I had already practiced the three types of leads for running shots,,,each has a place, and I also practiced the differnent stances long before I started shooting boar.

The boar were just dropping. I was using enough gun. No pipsqueaks. Mostly I used my Whelen then. Often I wss shooting doubles or triples on boar. I had a dep permit. So taking the first one with a careful standing shot,,,,after that it was nothing but running shooting.

So one day,,,I was deer hunting and this questionaly legal buck was just staring at me 40 feet away. I could not see that small legal fork till he spun and ran. Without even thinking, after shooting so many boar, I just automatically shot him angling away, right behind the last rib, high so as to miss the guts. He crumbled.

All that prep paid off. I have probably filled 10 tags over 30 years with similar close shots at moving deer. Never missed yet.

I know that I shoud not lead too much,,,that could tear into the front shoulder and not hit any vitals.

MR

 

[Mustangs Rule]

A few last thougths on rifles for shooting running game. The real wizards at it that I grew up with were using Model 94 30-30's or 32 Specials. Model 336 Marlins with 35 Remingtons. or Savage 99's in 300 Savage. None were undergunned. hese offered big heavy bulets. Also they used open sights, or peep siights with the small ring taken out. These were real fast shooters who grew up shooting small game on the run with 22's

Using most of the guns guys go afield with nowadays I would not use them period , much less for a running shot. they are unfit for such purposes , the scopes are too powerful and too high for near instant target aqusition.

My "do it all rifle" is that 308 Sako finlight carbine. For real quick shooting having a 2.5X scope or a 2-7 set on 2X with ultra low rings is the ticket. Having ulra low rings cannot be over valued. It is so close to iron sights. A do it all rifle IMHO, should be of a caliber in which you can buy and shoot cheap lead or copper plated target bullets, not by the dozens, but by the hundreds,,,many hundreds actualy. That means, 30 cal, 35 cal or now 7mm. Lead cast bullets are available reasonably cheap.

Lots of practice, hundreds upon hiundreda of light loads, then hunting small game with your big game rifle ..(.22's do not really count) and wow, wow wow, how well a hunter can shoot!!!

MY Sako is good for 350 yards or a dozen feet. That is an all around rifle. Light loads for grouse and rabbits, 150 grainers for deer, antelope. 165-180 for elk and 200 grainers for moose or bear. .

 

[mtmuley]

I don't shoot at running animals. mtmuley

 

[Mustangs Rule]

I don't shoot at running animals. mtmuley

Do you shoot at birds that fly?

 

[mtmuley]

Do you shoot at birds that fly?

Don't hunt birds as much as I used to. Need to get back into it. Comparing wing shooting with a shotgun to shooting at a running big game animal is a poor comparison. mtmuley

 

[Addicting]

Comparing wing shooting with a shotgun to shooting at a running big game animal is a poor comparison

Depends on where your from, MI deer drives and wing shooting have a lot in common. Pretty sure there are some even using the same type of shells.

 

[mtmuley]

Depends on where your from, MI deer drives and wing shooting have a lot in common. Pretty sure there are some even using the same type of shells.

Well, I won't shoot at a runner. My yardage at game might not be HT approved. The LR shooters get bashed. Probly even by guys that shoot runners. mtmuley

 

[Mustangs Rule]

I don't shoot at running animals. mtmuley

I do not shoot at flying deer,,,or flying elk.



A few months back I was visiting a friend who is a horse trainer that specializes in wild mustangs.



My moniker “Mustangs Rule” is no joke. This trainer likes to name geldings after US presidents. Often a nickname,,,some sharp sound a horse can hear clearly if issues develop.



This little flaxen maned mustang was named “Ike”,,,after Dwight D. Eisenhower of WW2 fame. He was my first and favorite president. “I like Ike” I heard people say.



Anyway, we were leading “Ike” around, and I just made a sudden move with my hand and the little horse launched ,,,into a jump so “anti-tiger” fast that no rider,,,save maybe 1840’s Comanche, could have stayed on him bareback. That little horse went airborne and sideways about 15 feet, it flew “deer fast” .



His speeeeeeed was so great he would had made Superman look so slow, like he had kryptonite for breakfast lunch and dinner.



Maximum heightened flight response was what Ike was exampling. That horse was airborne with all four feet off the ground. In a gallop or canter,,,all four feet get off the ground...in a trot two and depending on how slow a horse is walking just one foot might be off the ground.



Only the canter and the gallop could be called “running” as in shooting at “running game”. There is even a real slow kinda bouncy canter in which the horse is not really “running”’



Riding horses a lot really gives one a feeling of not just horses are like, but also any hoofed animal.



When I watch deer, or elk move, I feel like I can feel what they are doing,,,and responding too.



And I watch them both,,,a lot,,,and wild sheep, and when I am not lazy Mountain Goats too. I no longer live with antelope anymore, but I used to look at them out my living room window.



Every year I buy a mountain lion tag,,,which I have not, never have had the slightest interest in filling.

I do not hunt my own kind. Where I live has one of the highest wolf and lion concentration in the west,,,and because the habitat is so great, an excellent population of both deer and elk.



I just buy this lion tag as an excuse, to go wandering about with whatever rifle is my “do it all rifle” for the coming deer and elk season.



“Counting Coup” was a tradition of the plains Indians in which they just grazed an opponent on the head with a war club,,,instead of killing him.



With my “all around rifle” heaven only knows how many I have had,,and later sold and with dummy snap caps, I go about “Counting Coup” on deer, elk, and even moose.



“Calling one’s shot” on a target is an important step to being a real fine marksman. Just as the trigger falls, the shooter locks in where the cross hairs are. That is what I do,,,hike around,,stalk, dry fire,,at game that does not see me and sometimes does. I always try practicing my shooting on any critter,,,still or moving...The fast swing, sustained lead, snap shot,,,or even with elbows on my hip for level work,,,and then I sense where my sight image is when the trigger falls.



It is great practice, been doing it since Jack O’Connor suggested it in one of his books I read 60 years ago. So cool when it all comes together, the shooting practice and sensing how an animal will move.



With un-pressured wilderness animals, which I will be hunting, their maximum heighten flight response is not that high,,,they don’t “fly” that much.



Of course I prefer they have four feet on the ground, but as long as they have at least two feet on the ground in their gate, they are not running, and not going to live very long when hunting season begins if I have them in my very low powered scope, with whatever my “do it all rifle” is.



And when my critter is dead and down, I take out my Garmin In Reach satellite communication device and with a push of a button, tell the soon to come cavalry and pack horses exactly where I am.



The smoke from wildfires has cleared a lot,,,,no more excuses to stay inside and not to go out to split and stack firewood. Winter gets pretty cold here.



Thank you MtMuley



MR