That is flat out disrespectful JC.
Heh, not much more to say towards such.
Though I do find your post rather interesting... "I would guess most members... are not members..." Sure
That meets my level of "edjumacation".
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Nra
- Thread starter Calif. Hunter
- Start date
That is flat out disrespectful JC.
Heh, not much more to say towards such.
Though I do find your post rather interesting... "I would guess most members... are not members..." Sure
That meets my level of "edjumacation". 
duckhead59
New member
Its nice to see a discusion digress into a rambling arguement on here that doesnt involve the words democrat, republican, conservative, liberal, bush or obama...
One of the greatest beauties of this wonderful country is the freedom to openly express ideas and beliefs without the fear of reprisal from anyone (except fellow hunters)...and with that...I believe I'll have a beer...lol
One of the greatest beauties of this wonderful country is the freedom to openly express ideas and beliefs without the fear of reprisal from anyone (except fellow hunters)...and with that...I believe I'll have a beer...lol
noharleyyet
Well-known member
BuzzH
Well-known member
I wouldnt go so far as to say I'm anti-NRA...just think the organization has lost its way...big time.
They've turned into a money-machine with over payed execs to "protect" the second amendment that, IMO, is secure without them.
I feel bad for the membership that is constantly prodded into sending more and more money all the time and the way they do that is by peddling fear into its membership
Even more annoying to me now is that the've directed some of their attention to hunters and are trying to get involved in public lands management, game management, etc. Their intentions are not to actually help hunters, but to get more hunters to join and make them more money. The NRA is not a conservation organization...by a long shot...and should have stuck to their original mission. They also lobby on laws and rules that have very little, if anything, to do with the second.
The NRA runs more people off with their fear-mongering and meddling in unrelated issues than capture by casting the large net.
I wont and cant support them for all those reasons.
They've turned into a money-machine with over payed execs to "protect" the second amendment that, IMO, is secure without them.
I feel bad for the membership that is constantly prodded into sending more and more money all the time and the way they do that is by peddling fear into its membership
Even more annoying to me now is that the've directed some of their attention to hunters and are trying to get involved in public lands management, game management, etc. Their intentions are not to actually help hunters, but to get more hunters to join and make them more money. The NRA is not a conservation organization...by a long shot...and should have stuck to their original mission. They also lobby on laws and rules that have very little, if anything, to do with the second.
The NRA runs more people off with their fear-mongering and meddling in unrelated issues than capture by casting the large net.
I wont and cant support them for all those reasons.
cjcj
New member
Sounds like "a" government agency:hump:...I agree with some of your post...but we do "need them" just in case
duckhead59
New member
BuzzH...Im with you on your ideas abot nra.
I think a person should join/support any organization you feel represents your ideals. Im a member of a number of conservation organizations, volunteer time and spend money...but I believe in how they operate and what they are trying to achieve.
I was a member of nra for a longtime...then, they went a different direction. Once you were a member they constantly sent out these 4-5 page 'scare' letters trying to get more $$$....then the phone calls...then robo calls. They turned into a typical money grabbing political machine that steered away from its original great ideas/intentions and started focusing on grabbing more money and power for the sake of more money and power...yeah...like a typical govt beauracracy.
Anymore I feel the nra has a negative reputation with most people and generates more delimas for its own agenda than presenting a clean clear cut object that appeals to people whether gunowners or not.
At this point Ive decided they just arent for me anymore...I dont believe our 'right to own and bear arms' is in any jeopardy...if I believed it were...Id reconsider my stand.
I think a person should join/support any organization you feel represents your ideals. Im a member of a number of conservation organizations, volunteer time and spend money...but I believe in how they operate and what they are trying to achieve.
I was a member of nra for a longtime...then, they went a different direction. Once you were a member they constantly sent out these 4-5 page 'scare' letters trying to get more $$$....then the phone calls...then robo calls. They turned into a typical money grabbing political machine that steered away from its original great ideas/intentions and started focusing on grabbing more money and power for the sake of more money and power...yeah...like a typical govt beauracracy.
Anymore I feel the nra has a negative reputation with most people and generates more delimas for its own agenda than presenting a clean clear cut object that appeals to people whether gunowners or not.
At this point Ive decided they just arent for me anymore...I dont believe our 'right to own and bear arms' is in any jeopardy...if I believed it were...Id reconsider my stand.
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Bio Bo
Guest
I agree w/ both of you on what the NRA has become. And although I support the fight for the 2nd ammendment, I have never been an NRA member for many of the same reasons. But I don't believe for one second that our right to keep and bear arms is NOT in jeopardy... The way things are going our whole way of life is in jeopardy, don't you know...
JoseCuervo
New member
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Bio Bo
Guest
So what's your point?? YOU are one weird duck, Queervo...
duckhead59
New member
bio bo...I hear what youre saying...and I also support the fight for 2nd ammendment rights (and all rights guaranteed by our constitution).
Its just that while politicans, beaurocrats, interest groups, lobbyists and the like all like to throw the issue on the table and pound their chests...most (not all) politicans, regardless of their stand against any part of the 2nd ammendment know that to truely support an attempt to disassemble it would be commiting political suicide. Those type all know that trying to 'really pass'...not just saber rattle would lead to chaos and uprising from citizens...as that would be changing 'sacred' rights guarateed by the constitution whether they really like the 2nd ammendment or not...and a huge population of people would then worry that once breached any and all rights would be at risk. I think we just often hear from the extremes at both ends of any debate thru the media and forget that there are a lot of moderates out there with the ability to form sensible opinions about issues. just MHO.
Its just that while politicans, beaurocrats, interest groups, lobbyists and the like all like to throw the issue on the table and pound their chests...most (not all) politicans, regardless of their stand against any part of the 2nd ammendment know that to truely support an attempt to disassemble it would be commiting political suicide. Those type all know that trying to 'really pass'...not just saber rattle would lead to chaos and uprising from citizens...as that would be changing 'sacred' rights guarateed by the constitution whether they really like the 2nd ammendment or not...and a huge population of people would then worry that once breached any and all rights would be at risk. I think we just often hear from the extremes at both ends of any debate thru the media and forget that there are a lot of moderates out there with the ability to form sensible opinions about issues. just MHO.
amen:d:d:d
Calif. Hunter
Active member
IMHO, what has happened in or to California is that the "system" has gotten so screwed up via gerrymandering of legislative districts along with a general liberal bent of the voters, to make the more liberal Democrats who get elected feel that they have a mandate to be even more liberal. In other words, the moderates who vote Democratic candidates into office, are not represented by their elected officials. To get elected, the politicians have to also court the far left-leaning voters. The alternative for moderates is a far-right Republican that also does not reflect their views - so they vote along party lines.
The libs who get elected get to control how the distrcits are divided up, ensuring their reelection. And the cycle continues until they (hopefully) go so far left that everyone gets fed up with them. It hasn't happened yet, though.
The libs who get elected get to control how the distrcits are divided up, ensuring their reelection. And the cycle continues until they (hopefully) go so far left that everyone gets fed up with them. It hasn't happened yet, though.
The issue we tend to see though is the jumps in small increments. I am not an NRA member, and for many of the reasons posted I can't support them. I however am a fervent believer in the 2nd Amendment because people shouldn't be afraid of their government but the government should be afraid of it's people.(Jose you have tried to argue with me on this statement before, don't bother.) In looking at small jumps, we will slowly but surely see Gun Rights attacked in small increments for trade offs with the "conservatives" to get things they want.
The problem here is the assumption that a Government is what awards rights to a person. If a Government is the provider of rights we have a sliding scale of what is a right, and what is not. We are seeing that now with healthcare and entitlements that are bankrupting us(yes, the war in Iraq is expensive Jose). If Government is what gives us a right vs. some higher authority we are in trouble.
The Constitution was written with the belief that the rights guaranteed were given by God and therefore inherently sacred(yes, slavery was wrong and should have been abolished sooner). Rights are designed to protect us and came about as a result of experience from the men who wrote the Constitution because they felt their God given rights had been violated by a king/parliament.
If we have a Government that believes it knows better for us than we do our rights will be systematically demolished one by because they have replaced our belief that God gave us rights with a belief that Big Government is god.
The point is this, to a country that doesn't believe in a higher authority to answer to the Constitution is just a piece of paper written on by a bunch of old guys who wanted their own country. If that is the case, and I believe it currently is by many on both sides of the aisle, we are not guaranteed anything.
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duckhead59
New member
Calif. Hunter...isnt the Gov of your state a pretty highly touted conservative republican????...its not all liberals who are redrawing districts...ask the Texans...hell...they're as conservo/rep as apple pie and they've redrawn districts all over for the same reasons. Here in NE, another conservo/rep state...the republicans are working to redraw the lines because 1 district in the last presidental election cast votes for obama
My point and I'm not shooting at you...just putting a 'whoa' on your general statement that its all liberal demos who are trying to redraw the districts...that is just not fact my friend.
My point and I'm not shooting at you...just putting a 'whoa' on your general statement that its all liberal demos who are trying to redraw the districts...that is just not fact my friend.
duckhead59
New member
sreekers...I'm in agreement with you on the 2nd ammendment stuff...and the nra. And I am not a fan of powerful influence by govt large or small. its really not the 'govt' thats a problem...after all that is just a word that describes an intity that directs a large group of people who work for the govt. The problem arises when you get people who seek power...and more power...they are elected for the most part but end up moving their own agendas forward over the desires of the people who elected them...ie for more power, influence and longevity. People really need to realize the single biggest thing we as the populace can do to get back control of our govt is to vote out incumbants who are making a career out of politics and get term limits passed.
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Bio Bo
Guest
And the power hunger has developed its own culture in DC so when new reps. get elected they get swallowed up in the machine. It's follow along or get sent home by the power structure.
And, to address your other comment, the redistricting has been done by both parties whenever they have had the majority. In recent history, the democrats did it 1st to align the districts in their favor, then the republicans realigned them in their favor when they got power. Now the democrats have the power and the cycle is coming around again. Whatever happened to districts aligned by population instead of political beliefs and demographics? It must've gone along w/ naturalization...
As for the Governator, he's no conservative, IMO. Like w/ Obama, you have to watch what they do, not what they say. But in politics 1st liar doesn't stand a chance anyway...
And people think our 2nd ammendment rights aren't threatened? Or our free speech? Or our $$? And our way of life? Wake up, America! It's past time... your late for work!
duckhead59
New member
yep...but thats exactly why I think 2nd is safe...because if its undone...then people know all the rest are gone too. Plus it helped a lot to get the supreme court ruling last spring as you notice that opinion alone has resulted in a large number of the 'smaller' local issues now coming under intense scrutiny in favor of the 2nd ammendment
WV Hunter
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2009
- Messages
- 1,763
Not sure how anybody could believe the 2nd is safe. What about the 94 AW ban, the 89 machine gun ban, NFA 39' and all the other state and city restrictions around the country put on gun owners over the years? Show me another organization that does more for gun rights and gun owners, not just the hunters, then I will gladly send my yearly dues to them. The NRA is not perfect or even close, but they are the best thing we have going in my opinion.
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Bio Bo
Guest
I see your point, but I don't share your optimism altogether. There are too many people, and getting to be more all the time, who are ignorant of guns and consequently afraid of them. Those people don't share our beliefs or our insight. In fact, most people have been apathetic to the whole situation evolving in this country. And isn't it apathy that precedes bondage?
I am encouraged by the debate that has become more and more active in recent months, but this government/ power mongers that we have now is ramming their agenda down our throats right now... IF we allow it? And I'm not sure we can stop it... It may be too late. But the vocal town hall meetings and tea parties are a good thing... At least people are voicing their opinions and LOUDLY... We know they can hear us, but what we don't know is... Will they pay us any attention??
Calif. Hunter
Active member
Not hardly. He claims to be a Republican, but I don't know ayone (other than you?) who would call him a "highly touted" (or any othe kind of) conservative Republican. He is, at best, a moderate Republican, married to a member of the Kennedy clan. He definitely leans liberal on many issues, so I do no t see how he could be defined as a conservative.
Amen to that! However, term limits just means that they change jobs...an assemblyman becomes a Treasurer becomes an Attorney General becomes a Governor becomes a Senator..... But getting rid of incumbents is a good idea.
