D
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Sir sometimes you just look at your tools and an opportunity and say "why the F not"
Now I've heard it all
- Thread starter Nick87
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Sir sometimes you just look at your tools and an opportunity and say "why the F not"
I lived in southern IL for 25 years- this is amazing. It's the little things that really make this: The appropriate font. The high-quality logo (maybe a little TOO clear for IDNR). The appropriately sized images. But the choice of author really puts it over the top, for me.
How long until this starts making the rounds on the internet? Maybe get picked up by a local news source? This could be incredible. Idiots abound, and they love feeling important finding info first.
Yes, I can feel it- this is the birth of something beautiful.
2rocky
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Hunter4Life78
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Montana can't ship grizzlies to California. It's not because we don't want to. The reason is that we are afraid the State of Montana will be sued and such a lawsuit will/would in all probability increase the fees to hunt in Montana because there will be the "one guy" that says," of how cute, how lovely, I need to pet that bear, not only do I need to that bear wants me to pet it. My thought process doesn't encompass all from California, I have met quite a few that are pleasant to talk to and show some common sense when in bear country.
I believe this is a job for the “Wildlife Special Forces”. Ive said too much…
On a completely unrelated note, how many griz are needed for a future sustainable population in a new, habitable location?
Hunter4Life78
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That is a good question. I know Chuck Jonkel(I believe I have the name correct) has published numerous articles, research data, etc in regards to bears. The University of Montana would be a good place to research your question. You may want to look at what was published when delisting the Grizzly was being considered. I'm sure there would adequate info provided. I did a quick search and found data on Grizzly Bear Biology. Females can start breeding as early as 3 years I believe it said and will continue to do so until mid to late twenties and can spawn 1-4 cubs. I didn't see anything on cub mortality or how often a liter of 4 occurs.
I'm not a biologist by any means and don't want to throw a number out there as it would simply be one plucked from the air.
I do want to say thank you. I'm moving to a new post tonight for work and will have some down time. The question you posted has given me something to read and look into further.
D
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You will likely get different answers based on "goals" for the population, but some of the remnant populations have hung on with incredibly small populations. The pyrenees population for instance was super small.
Haha you’re welcome. Im just curious because I hunt some wild country in CA, and the stories of big griz from the coast to the mtns intrigues me. Buddy and I were talking the other day while hunting about how epic it would be to see sheep, griz, elk, and wolves back in the areas we hunt. City people (and lots of country folk + hunters) love bears so I figure if someone tried, millions could be raised for conservation to return griz to CA, and in the meantime help restore elk and sheep too. Wolves dont need help…That is a good question. I know Chuck Jonkel(I believe I have the name correct) has published numerous articles, research data, etc in regards to bears. The University of Montana would be a good place to research your question. You may want to look at what was published when delisting the Grizzly was being considered. I'm sure there would adequate info provided. I did a quick search and found data on Grizzly Bear Biology. Females can start breeding as early as 3 years I believe it said and will continue to do so until mid to late twenties and can spawn 1-4 cubs. I didn't see anything on cub mortality or how often a liter of 4 occurs.
I'm not a biologist by any means and don't want to throw a number out there as it would simply be one plucked from the air.
I do want to say thank you. I'm moving to a new post tonight for work and will have some down time. The question you posted has given me something to read and look into further.
Also figure the population capacity for griz in CA could rival MT (used to live in Missoula and attended UM). More griz could give a legitimate excuse for hunting them once populations have increased even more across the lower 48, and would be the conservation success story of the century…. Just throw’n it out there into the universe, more food for thought. The bear is literally on CA’s flag so no one can argue they dont belong here.
DouglasR
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They’re coming home to me.
Cougar roaming Illinois city; people told to leave it alone
A cougar was detected by satellite in Springfield, Illinois, on Wednesday and remained there for much of the day, mostly sleeping in a secluded area.
www.pjstar.com
I think that’s the one they tracked by the Lincoln airport last year. He/she’s made a hell of trip in a year.They’re coming home to me.
Cougar roaming Illinois city; people told to leave it alone
A cougar was detected by satellite in Springfield, Illinois, on Wednesday and remained there for much of the day, mostly sleeping in a secluded area.www.pjstar.com
PrairieHunter
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Lions around Chadron were stalking people in the 2010's when I lived there. Showing up in peoples back yards. Had several killed where I lived near the state park.When they started to pop up here around 2000 the rumor was the Nebraska Game and Parks was releasing them out of pressure from insurance companies to lower the deer population. Having our rifle season on the rut does a good job at wiping out the deer already.
It was s hysteria for a little while, people were acting like the lions were actively stalking people. I was a kid and didn’t know better. It’s pretty comical now.
This was nearby.
Mountain Lion Killed Near Chadron •Nebraskaland Magazine
LINCOLN — A 5-month-old female mountain lion was shot south of Chadron in Dawes County on Saturday, July 19. A man reported noticing the animal crouched in the grass about 20 yards from his residence, where two young children were present on a patio. The man retrieved a rifle from the house and...
magazine.outdoornebraska.gov
Gellar
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Mountain lions are about the only thing moving into Illinois.
Nick87
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You know they keep saying people are leaving. I can tell you not near enough of them are. Just feels like that from all the Chicago folks moving west. I got so cramped I moved another 40 miles west making myself into a transplant of sorts.
Wind Gypsy
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sapperJ24
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Randy's podcast earlier this year with the former Grizzly Bear recovery coordinator Chris Servheen touches on some of the California griz questions. https://hunttalk.libsyn.com/grizzly-bears-past-present-future
I shouldn't, but I guess I'll speculate a bit. Seervheen states that there used to be more grizzly in California than any other state, but at this point there's been substantial loss of habitat. I also have concerns with the population density and the amount of people in California. That said, I'm sure you could find some places to start a population. Long term persistence would be tough.
There has been augmentation efforts to keep existing populations afloat in places like NW Montana and the Idaho Panhandle. As far as I know, the bears still haven't quite turned the corner.
As others have alluded to, success depends on what you goal is. For grizzly bears there is large difference between census population and effective population (basically reproducing females). And over long enough time scales, with low effective populations, you can start to run into possible inbreeding problems. This is documented in the Yellowstone population, but likely somewhat mitigated with expected future immigrants from other populations.
@sapperJ24 Good info there! Thanks for sharing that, will have to listen to the podcast when I have time.
The best area for a CA grizzly reintroduction would be the PNW. It has the lowest population and the least popular forests for recreational city visitors compared to areas like yosemite. Also has the wild, rugged habitat for a large population (I believe, not a biologist). People up there claim to care about the environment a lot too…. And a lot just grow drugs. They could spread across the state from there naturally, and eventually north too through the cascades, maybe one day reconnecting with other populations.
Id guess 100 bears to start, with a goal of 500-1000 in CA alone one day. Again, not a biologist. There are stories of CA coastal bears that would rival the size of Alaskan coastal brown bears. Would certainly be interesting to have them back here and people would learn to live with them like they do elsewhere. Like I said before, would probably be the greatest conservation story of our lifetimes.
The best area for a CA grizzly reintroduction would be the PNW. It has the lowest population and the least popular forests for recreational city visitors compared to areas like yosemite. Also has the wild, rugged habitat for a large population (I believe, not a biologist). People up there claim to care about the environment a lot too…. And a lot just grow drugs. They could spread across the state from there naturally, and eventually north too through the cascades, maybe one day reconnecting with other populations.
Id guess 100 bears to start, with a goal of 500-1000 in CA alone one day. Again, not a biologist. There are stories of CA coastal bears that would rival the size of Alaskan coastal brown bears. Would certainly be interesting to have them back here and people would learn to live with them like they do elsewhere. Like I said before, would probably be the greatest conservation story of our lifetimes.
sapperJ24
Well-known member
Wild speculation here as I have limited California experience and am really just going off of name recognition, but I figured places like Shasta Trinity, Siskiyou, Modoc could be a start. Coastal bears are very intriguing!
For the longevity of the grizzly bear species, an interconnected population from California through the North Cascades to Canada would be amazing.
The two bear populations in Montana/Wyoming that hung around were the NCDE and GYE, both over 2 million acres protected from development (outside of national park road/ amenities).
Hunter4Life78
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This may sound smart alecky in response, I do have a couple legit questions. As a former pest control specialist (Reserve LEO) I had some dealings with individuals that purchased Cannabis from Norther California. When I spoke to another police officer in Humboldt County he was telling me that area was littered with illegal grows (at the time). Now I am curious. Given that bears are omnivores. Can you imagine seeing a grizzly bear so stoned they were too lazy charge if they decided that the cannabis plant was in fact very much to their liking. Also, would it lead to a increase in bears entering cabins, raiding garbage cans all that fun stuff in the search of food due to an increase in appetite.
IF this was the case then maybe reintroduction wouldn't be such a bad idea in Northern California. I'm getting a Jay and Silent Bob image.
( I DON'T USE CANNABIS)
I printed one off, may also start sharing on the face butt. We'll see if it gains traction.
