I went to copper (Barnes) 5 years ago for my 270 WSM and will never go back to lead. The performance is outstanding, meat damage is minimalized, and I don't have to worry about my young family eating lead. I also can feel better when I see the eagles or ravens on my gut piles. I honestly don't see any disadvantage of copper compared to lead.
Non-lead (lead-free) Ammunition Coordinator for California
- Thread starter NVDesertHunter
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Coyotes-R-Us
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Length and the wrong twist.
Some guns just have the wrong twist to shoot a longer bullet
Some guns just have the wrong twist to shoot a longer bullet
For the most part, I am in support of the lead free movement in California. In a couple years, all hunting will require LF.
The rub is, lead free now must coincide with the new state law that will require background checks on ammo purchase. As I understand the law, it will under almost all practical circumstance ban Internet ammo purchase.
Now if you have a common caliber firearm, it most likely will not be a problem, but what about the hundreds of not so common calibers? What is the person who has a .257 Roberts going to do when looking for lead free ammo. They certainly are not going to find it a Wally.
Next year I am most likely going to purchase a 6.5 mm Grendel deer rifle. There are no lead free factory loads for this caliber, so my only option is to work up a proper load. Can this be done, of course, but it is not my first choice. My hand loading equipment, my skill set and the time I can dedicate to this is nowhere close to what I could get with a factory load manufactured in a six-sigma facility.
It has become pretty clear that lead free ammo can be made to perform very well, but the logistical problem of requiring lead free is perhaps the bigger issue. Hopefully, the big guys like Hornady etc. will step up and offer more lead free ammo.
Cheers,
Mark
The rub is, lead free now must coincide with the new state law that will require background checks on ammo purchase. As I understand the law, it will under almost all practical circumstance ban Internet ammo purchase.
Now if you have a common caliber firearm, it most likely will not be a problem, but what about the hundreds of not so common calibers? What is the person who has a .257 Roberts going to do when looking for lead free ammo. They certainly are not going to find it a Wally.
Next year I am most likely going to purchase a 6.5 mm Grendel deer rifle. There are no lead free factory loads for this caliber, so my only option is to work up a proper load. Can this be done, of course, but it is not my first choice. My hand loading equipment, my skill set and the time I can dedicate to this is nowhere close to what I could get with a factory load manufactured in a six-sigma facility.
It has become pretty clear that lead free ammo can be made to perform very well, but the logistical problem of requiring lead free is perhaps the bigger issue. Hopefully, the big guys like Hornady etc. will step up and offer more lead free ammo.
Cheers,
Mark
NVDesertHunter
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When people first started using non-lead bullets, they saw smaller exit wounds than they saw with their old lead bullets. I feel people were quick to assume the bullet didn't expand. I have shot ~500 non-lead bullets into ballistic gel and water from 25-400 yards and every bullet has expanded.
Non-lead bullets do penetrate through most animals, however the damage in between the entrance and exit wounds are comparable to what a lead based bullet will do.
The difference in exit wound size is because by the time a lead bullet reaches the offside of the animal, it has fragmented into many pieces. The larger exit hole is from hundreds of small lead fragments exiting the animal at roughly the same time (picture shotgun pellets spreading apart in flight).
Since most non-lead bullets do not fragment, the entire bullet leaves the animal, expanded and intact. Animal skin is very elastic and looking at an exit wound to determine if a bullet expanded or not can be tricky.
I'll be the first to say that non-lead bullets are not magic. You still have to strike the animal in the vitals or central nervous system to bring them down. Shot placement will always be the most important aspect of killing an animal.
Non-lead bullets do penetrate through most animals, however the damage in between the entrance and exit wounds are comparable to what a lead based bullet will do.
The difference in exit wound size is because by the time a lead bullet reaches the offside of the animal, it has fragmented into many pieces. The larger exit hole is from hundreds of small lead fragments exiting the animal at roughly the same time (picture shotgun pellets spreading apart in flight).
Since most non-lead bullets do not fragment, the entire bullet leaves the animal, expanded and intact. Animal skin is very elastic and looking at an exit wound to determine if a bullet expanded or not can be tricky.
I'll be the first to say that non-lead bullets are not magic. You still have to strike the animal in the vitals or central nervous system to bring them down. Shot placement will always be the most important aspect of killing an animal.
Gerald Martin
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It was DIY. I thought I had trimmed enough away around the path of the bullet but evidently some of the fragments had penetrated muscle in a way I didn't detect bloodshot. This was from a soft point Corelokt.
HighDesertSage
Well-known member
I used to be somewhat critical of non-lead ammo. Then I saw the performance of them on game, which is excellent, and my two kids starting eating wild game, so I have made the switch and never looked back.
Some interesting counter to the non lead information. The conclusions of this research is that lead free bullets do not kill as humanly as lead bullets.
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Homogenous+copper+bullets+can+be+inhumane.html
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Homogenous+copper+bullets+can+be+inhumane.html
NVDesertHunter
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I believe the author in this study was using "common" nonlead bullets (barnes TSX, Hornady GMX) at long range. As you mentioned earlier, these types of bullets need at least 2000fps to expand. In a .30/06 type of caliber that threshold is typically reached around 400 yards. Later in the study he mentions if you are shooting long distance, use a segmenting copper bullet like Cutting Edge Bullets, Hammer or Cavity Back bullets. These copper bullets are designed to expand at lower velocities.
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AlaskaHunter
Well-known member
Same for me...I used to reload Nozler partitions for .270 and 300 H&H, then changed to Barnes TSX about 5 years ago.
Both bullets had excellent performance on sheep, caribou and moose. Reloading the TSX is not substantially more expensive
than reloading premium lead bullets.
I waterfowl hunt quite a bit, using 11/8 oz steel (not magnums) since my shots are selectively close on decoying ducks.
No problem killing ducks that decoy in close.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
It seems as though the studies conclusion happened to match the authors preclusion.
While I don't think mono bullets are the best choice in every situation such as long range or low power rifles They are a good choice in many circumstances.
That article would make a guy think a varmint bullet would be a humane bullet for elk hunting.
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