MT shoulder season decision...

[RobG]

John - I can't figure out what these new regulations mean. If there are special draw permits then you might have a chance of getting on a ranch. If it is just OTC tags I think you are going to find the same problem with access to private lands as you do during the regular season, which is to say, unless you know a rancher you aren't going to have a place to hunt.

 

[----]

John - I can't figure out what these new regulations mean. If there are special draw permits then you might have a chance of getting on a ranch. If it is just OTC tags I think you are going to find the same problem with access to private lands as you do during the regular season, which is to say, unless you know a rancher you aren't going to have a place to hunt.

The sick thing though is that these proposals include a LOT of public land. Absolutely mind blowing.

 

[tjones]

Also this:

Region 2
All R2 HDs with elk B Licenses: Eliminate the stipulation that a B License holder may not take an antlered
bull in that HD.

This one has my blood boiling, best stay away from all others for awhile.

 

[Big Fin]

Also this:

Region 2
All R2 HDs with elk B Licenses: Eliminate the stipulation that a B License holder may not take an antlered
bull in that HD.

This one has my blood boiling, best stay away from all others for awhile.

So if I understand correctly, the proposal is to make the Region 2 elk units either-sex for those holding an elk B licenses? Isn't much of unit 2 in the crapper, in terms of total numbers and bull-to-cow ratios?

 

[tjones]

So if I understand correctly, the proposal is to make the Region 2 elk units either-sex for those holding an elk B licenses? Isn't much of unit 2 in the crapper, in terms of total numbers and bull-to-cow ratios?

Yes and yes, not just either sex but one bull, one cow in the same unit with crappy bull cow ratio. Only R2 which in itself is a pisser. I think that makes in the only region in the state allowing 2 elk in the same HD.

One way to fix the bull/cow ratio is not to raise bulls but reduce cows- wa la -the ratio is up with the same number of bulls. Problem solved

 

[RobG]

The sick thing though is that these proposals include a LOT of public land. Absolutely mind blowing.

I suppose it depends on the area in question, but lots of public land around here. All the pressure just taught them to head to private lands when the season starts. Pretty soon there won't be a cow in the herd that remembers hanging out on public land.

http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2014/elkmovement.htm#.VmYzLb-ul2A

 

[JLS]

Shoot the calf too...the only thing MTFWP, Montana Legislature, and landowners like is dead elk. The end justifies the means....always.

It's just more the Debbie Barrett led assault on Montana elk.

Hasn't Region 4 allowed two elk for a number of years now? I know you could kill two there in the middle 2000's, but one cow had to come from private land or DNRC land.

At some point, landowners have to realize that they are significantly contributing to the problem and make some efforts to remedy it. Or, the social tolerance portion could be eliminated from the elk objectives.

 

[----]

Yes and yes, not just either sex but one bull, one cow in the same unit with crappy bull cow ratio. Only R2 which in itself is a pisser. I think that makes in the only region in the state allowing 2 elk in the same HD.

One way to fix the bull/cow ratio is not to raise bulls but reduce cows- wa la -the ratio is up with the same number of bulls. Problem solved

No, region 2 was the only region in the state before this year where you COULDN'T fill both tags in the same unit. This change puts it in line with the rest of the state.

 

[Ben Lamb]

It's just more the Debbie Barrett led assault on Montana elk.

Hasn't Region 4 allowed two elk for a number of years now? I know you could kill two there in the middle 2000's, but one cow had to come from private land or DNRC land.

At some point, landowners have to realize that they are significantly contributing to the problem and make some efforts to remedy it. Or, the social tolerance portion could be eliminated from the elk objectives.

Yes, the 004-80, now the 004-00 B tag is for DNRC & private land only. Been up & running at least 4-5 years.

And your point about landowners is the real issue here. Until landowners who allow wildlife management on their places start to pressure those who shut out hunters, we're going to continue to have the harboring problem.

 

[tjones]

No, region 2 was the only region in the state before this year where you COULDN'T fill both tags in the same unit. This change puts it in line with the rest of the state.

There ya go, my world is small. I just can't see how HD's in R2 with lots of public ground and crappy bull/cow ratios will benefit.

 

[BuzzH]

Now we're cooking with grease.

Spotted calf in grease...yummy.

So if I understand correctly, the proposal is to make the Region 2 elk units either-sex for those holding an elk B licenses? Isn't much of unit 2 in the crapper, in terms of total numbers and bull-to-cow ratios?

Hey, I've only hunted region 2 every year since 1979. Last year while deer hunting where my family and I have shot 56 elk in the past, I cut ONE elk track the last 9 days of the season (hiking before dark to after dark each day). All through the 80's and 90's I'd usually see elk at least every 2-3 days, more if the weather was right. This year, I hunted 3 days with my Brother, we logged between 10.2-12.9 miles over those 3 days and saw 9 elk (8 cows and a spike), and cut ONE other elk track.

Deer numbers are still in the crapper along with the elk as well...63, 27, and 14 deer is what we saw in the same 3 days. Best day last year we saw 86 in one day, most days 20-30, which is total dogchit compared to the mid-90s-mid 2000's. I recall one day (November 18, 2006), I shot the 22nd 4x4 or better buck that I had seen that day by 1:30 PM. Now I'm lucky to see 22 total deer in a day.

Jeff Hagener, Quentin Kujala and the rest of the band of misfits at MTFWP are trying to tell everyone how great the hunting is in Montana. The first course that must be required by the MTFWP to hire a biologist must be "BULLCHIT 101". Followed by "lying with a straight face 212". I've seen what good is, and currently, its not even decent compared to what I had in 1979-80. They also just quite cant figure out why NR tags are not selling anymore...yeah, I cant figure that out either??? Must be the economy....:W:

I went out today just sort of snooping around in Wyoming, I saw 400 elk, most all of them on public, with a valid tag in pocket. That's more elk than I'll likely see in the next 10 years in Montana on public land...

I hope things change, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[tjones]

Does the HD you hunted Buzz have antler less B licenses?

 

[JohnCushman]

Well, it sounds like this idea is in the crapper, then. I was telling my wife what little bit I was picking up from here and talking to a few people and she said to go for it and try and put a cow in the freezer. I guess I'll stay home from the sounds of it and butcher more pigs and sheep.

 

[BuzzH]

Does the HD you hunted Buzz have antler less B licenses?

Yes, for both deer and elk.

 

[tjones]

Yes, for both deer and elk.

So you have trouble finding a bull so FWP will now allow a hunter a bull AND a cow in a struggling HD.


The HD I hunt a lot is restricted to unlimited first choice only bull permits. It's been single digit to low teens bull cow ratio for years. Cow numbers are good so they add b licenses but you can't kill both in the same HD. At the time seemed ok, as it may protect a bull or two. Now, not so much.

 

[Chucknduck]

Let just start shooting elk like prarie dogs. No liscence or limit and shoot em year round.

 

[BuzzH]

tjones, yes its pretty tough to find a bull in there.

I've personally shot 21 elk in there since 1980, and I can assure you that nobody on planet earth knows that country I hunt better than I do. I've spent literally thousands and thousands of hours hunting there. I've also kept detailed notes and journals for nearly 30 years of all the hunting and trapping I have done.

I also doubt the bull-to-cow ratios were ever much over 10-15/100 where I hunt....now its much lower.

We had good snow in 2009 and 2010...I saw 5 bulls in 2009 and killed a nice 6x6. In 2010 I saw 10 bulls and shot a 5 point.

Both years, I felt a bit like the guy shooting the last Bison on earth.

I don't want to hunt a State where I feel guilty for shooting an elk, and in both cases, I did.

Kind of takes the fun out of hunting for me when I don't feel right about pulling the trigger, when I know damn good and well that the deer and elk populations just aren't there.

I think the average hunter in Montana just thinks that, "well if the MTFWP tells me its all right to shoot deer and elk for 11 weeks, we must have plenty of them". I cant fault them, that's EXACTLY what the MTFWP is telling them.

I know better and act accordingly...and why I wont ever buy another elk tag in Montana if things don't change. I want no part of the chit-show that is happening there with elk.

 

[AH_14]

not thread relevant---
I removed it
AH

 

[AH_14]

Shoot Buzz---our discussion isn't even thread relevant- I probably shouldn't of even posted here....., back to Shoulder Season discussion

 

[Bambistew]

What happens if you get pounded by snow and cold and have a big winter kill? I would think having a little padding wouldn't hurt? You're over due for a real winter.