MT shoulder season decision...

[Nameless Range]

I was not able to hear the testimony either. I am looking forward to hearing about RMEF rational on this subject.

My bet would be their reasoning will be focused on landowner relations. They constantly stress the importance of landowners, and IMO sort of tiptoe around them with their statements.

 

[shoots-straight]

Mark Lambrecht from RMEF spoke in support for the shoulder seasons today during the meeting. I am curious why RMEF is supporting this?

It's opportunity for hunters, and so if there's hunters that are happy maybe there's a new guy out there to throw money at RMEF. Happy hunters are great donors.

Now in a few years when there are a bunch of unhappy hunters RMEF will have to regroup and blame this thing on the Department, and will ask for more money to fix the problem.

It's marketing.

 

[shoots-straight]

I might add that outfitters are in favor of this shoulder seasons because it takes care of the the cows where they lease lands. Outfitters are huge donors with RMEF.

 

[BRI]

I think this is pretty short sighted and I'm having a hard time seeing a silver lining or anything positive to the future of elk hunting coming from this. There's definitely a huntable and non-huntable population of elk and only the huntable (generally to the public) should be the objective. Huntable elk are becoming harder to find every year and this proposal hammers that population even more so. So fast forward a few years and if these shoulder seasons are deemed a success, huntable elk will be even harder to find.

 

[tjones]

Wondering why the RMEF would support killing cow elk in August and February.

 

[RobG]

Sounds like RMEF may be having another HR1581 moment...

The seasons didn't even make the paper. The Gardiner hunt was a successful diversion. We are going to have to do a lot more if that is to happen, like a march on the Capitol.

This is a fundamental change that will take the public hunter's voice out of elk management. It circumvents the law that requires landowners to provide access to get game damage assistance. Kary couldn't get it done legislatively, so he did an end around.

We will lose opportunity during the general season because elk populations will be cut in half or more and landowners no longer have an incentive to provide access.We'll lose opportunity after season because landowners no longer have to use hunters chosen in a fair way. I didn't think Kary's "end-around" bill was a big deal when it was vetoed, but seeing how his wishes unfolded I admit I was wrong.

 

[JoeSchmo]

"Include in the 397-00 B license bundle valid 9/3-2/15. Not valid on National Forest. General license shoulder season for anterless elk valid 11/28-2/15 not valid on National Forest"

Does this mean the regular season will happen as it previously did with the exception of the ability to take a cow on land excluded NF. So no rifle hunters will be hunting over an archers head, correct? Then on 11/28 the cow onslaught begins... Am I comprehending this correct? Or can people use the B tag 9/3 and use a rifle starting then?

 

[Big Fin]

I might add that outfitters are in favor of this shoulder seasons because it takes care of the the cows where they lease lands. Outfitters are huge donors with RMEF.

Now that's funny, Robert. The same group that tried to use their leverage to keep me off the Board and whose requests were denied are now the supposed reason RMEF takes a position on a topic. As the finance committee chairman who knows where RMEF donations and revenue come from, I might add. ........ you are seriously uninformed /misinformed.

And if shoulder seasons are going to become an RMEF topic, start a new thread on that and let's discuss it over there. When I'm done with this day of tax planning meetings I'm happy to try answer whatever questions I can.

I might add ....... many RMEF members and volunteers called in support of shoulder seasond. For many, they just want an elk in their freezer. Antlers are not a priority for many.

I'm sure I'll be getting a summary of how many comments from members /volunteers were for/against shoulder seasons. Hopefully those of you who are members provided your comments in support /opposition so RMEF had an good cross section of member opinions when deciding on what their testimony would be.

 

[Straight Arrow]

..can people use the B tag 9/3 and use a rifle starting then?

As I understood the discussion, generally you can rifle hunt from Sept to February, but not on National Forest. You may rifle hunt on National Forest during the traditional five-week general season.

Archers would be wise to stay on National Forest during the traditional archery season.

 

[Pagosa]

Can someone summarizes their complaints about the recent MT FWP meeting agenda and the shoulder seasons? From reading the meeting notes it didnt look like major changes, except for creating shoulder seasons in the Dillon area, reducing bull harvest in 340, creating the new 217 unit, and moving unit boundaries. I do not understand opening up the shoulder season in Region 2, but other than that I really didn't note any major changes. What are people's issue with the recent proposed changes? I'm just asking to be better informed if I want to contact the Region 3 Biologists or make comments to the commission. Thanks

 

[Straight Arrow]

After listening to the convoluted discussions and questions / answers regarding a confusing and complex set of proposals, differing somewhat among hunting districts and Elk Management Units, it seems that I need more information and clarification to assess the potential impacts to elk as wildlife and to elk hunting.

Presently, I am attempting to look at the proposals with three test questions:
1. Will these changes serve to better sustain viable elk populations in the various areas?
2. How will these changes impact hunting legacy, access, opportunity, and ethics for my grandchildren and for yours?
3. Are these changes consistent with the North American Wildlife Conservation Model?

 

[shoots-straight]

Now that's funny, Robert. The same group that tried to use their leverage to keep me off the Board and whose requests were denied are now the supposed reason RMEF takes a position on a topic. As the finance committee chairman who knows where RMEF donations and revenue come from, I might add. ........ you are seriously uninformed /misinformed.

I didn't say they were the sole reason RMEF took the support stance. They are members and contribute. The first post stated "members". Didn't they (Outfitters try to flex muscle by threatening loss of donated money if you made the board?

So are donated hunts for banquets filed under donations from that outfitter, or banquet fund raising? In the classifieds of the Elk Quarterly I see pages of adds from Outfitters. Small percentage of revenue? The RMEF and Outfitters have always shared a tight connection. True?

In the past banquets I went to, they were dominated by Outfitters and their guides. Has that changed?

I might add ....... many RMEF members and volunteers called in support of shoulder seasond. For many, they just want an elk in their freezer. Antlers are not a priority for many.

Aren't there still a lot of RMEF volunteers that are also members of the Outfitters and guides ass, that work in those fields.

Information is a good thing!

 

[BuzzH]

To answer all the questions regarding the shoulder seasons, that will happen whether you like them or not, just pass this thing...you can see what's in the details once you pass it.

I would totally trust John Vore, Quentin Kujala, and Jeff Hagener...they have a "great" elk management plan to work with, and really deeply care about freezers, elk, and opportunity at all costs.

Nothing to see here...just shut up and get those elk killed.

 

[RobG]

I might add ....... many RMEF members and volunteers called in support of shoulder seasond. For many, they just want an elk in their freezer. Antlers are not a priority for many.

Randy - I have a feeling it is a lot easier to put an late season cow elk in the freezer now than it will be in the future unless they have a buddy who owns a ranch. The hunt roster is going away so most people aren't going to know how to get on these properties. It will certainly require a lot more work for me.

The shoulder hunt also circumvents the law requiring landowners to provide access during the general season (and even post season). While the commission has guidelines now, it is naive to assume they will be followed given the intent of all this and the way it was forced on us.

That doesn't even consider the fact that elk numbers are to be reduced by a factor of 2 or 3 in most districts where they can harvest a cow now. So I think anyone who is supporting this to get a cow in the freezer is making a huge mistake. Improve the hunt roster or do drawn permits for certain properties if that is your goal.

As for RMEF, I know it causes you a lot of headaches and your time could be better spent than answering phone calls and emails about it so I'll take that battle elsewhere and encourage others to also do so.

I do hope you will see the problems with this shoulder hunt as proposed. Vermillion had some pretty stark words about how this will affect the elk moving forward.

 

[Big Foot]

RMEF did not hear from me on the issue because in my mind this is how it looks on paper -

Pros:
Minimize crop damage
Reduce elk numbers to maintain objective numbers (per BS management plan)
Slob hunters can line up at the trough

Cons:
August hunts for cows with unweaned calfs
February hunts for cows with formed fetus
Lengthening an already long hunting season
Stressing elk while on winter range
Promoting herd shooting scenarios
Previous attempts at shoulder seasons have failed
Already have damage roster hunts, B-Tags and BMA as tools
1 week into trial period of (4) shoulders seasons (44) seasons rolled out for implementation
Department flying blind without data from initial trial shoulder districts

We can do better! We have 9 weeks to shape these herds into what is palatable for the public. There has to be other tools to reach a similar end.

 

[Chucknduck]

I'm just sick of fwp bending over for the landowners. If you own thousands of acres in Montana you should just have to deal with wildlife. Heck I have 2 acres and the deer eat my wife's flowers and garden. Maybey fwp will help me kill every deer for ten miles.

 

[Straight Arrow]

If you own thousands of acres in Montana you should just have to deal with wildlife.

I think it should be mandatory prior to discussions such as yesterday, FWP should review the Rathbone case of prior to the middle of the last century in Montana and should also publicly remind all that wildlife are truly a valuable natural resource and a treasure of the Treasure State, not to be squandered nor considered a "nuisance", but rather to be nurtured and sustained.

 

[JoeSchmo]

Have any of these shoulder seasons been 'finalized' yet? Can we still write in, voicing our displeasure- where at?

 

[Big Foot]

Double Post - Sorry

 

[Big Foot]

Have any of these shoulder seasons been 'finalized' yet? Can we still write in, voicing our displeasure- where at?

Nothing has been finalized, contact your regional FWP office as well as the commissioners.

Sounds like you need to contact RMEF and any other organizations weighing in on this as well.