MT FWP Tentative Season setting meetings

[tjones]

Like I said some if not all b tags need to go but season lengths are fine . I do think the shoulder seasons need to go too . All the region 7 mule b tags are ridiculous ..... shouldn't be any

The only way elk B’s and shoulder seasons will go away is if you can find a way to repeal Debbie Barrett’s HB42 and/or get FWP to rewrite the EMP elk objectives.

Cow numbers aren’t the problem, bull numbers are. When there are spring green up bull/cow ratios in the single digits to low teens it’s not hard to see what’s really wrong.

 

[antlerradar]

Eric, I have been solicited by outfitters many times to lease. Part of the pitch almost always includes the claim that they will manage the game better than FWP. It must hit home with at least some landowners or they would not be using the pitch on me. There are many reasons why landowners lease but in your opinion much of a role is the current management of FWP in influencing landowners to lease ether to outfitters or hunting clubs? Our place is not leased but there is no way I would let what has happened to the Custer in the last 30 years happen to the family ranch.

 

[Straight Arrow]

The only way elk B’s and shoulder seasons will go away is if you can find a way to repeal Debbie Barrett’s HB42 and/or get FWP to rewrite the EMP elk objectives.

I agree with that analysis and opinion. Well-expressed!

 

[8andcounting]

Eric, I have been solicited by outfitters many times to lease. Part of the pitch almost always includes the claim that they will manage the game better than FWP. It must hit home with at least some landowners or they would not be using the pitch on me. There are many reasons why landowners lease but in your opinion much of a role is the current management of FWP in influencing landowners to lease ether to outfitters or hunting clubs? Our place is not leased but there is no way I would let what has happened to the Custer in the last 30 years happen to the family ranch.

How big is your ranch acres wise? Just curious . And I do agree with most that is being said

 

[bigsky2]

It's probably a waste of my time, but I'm going to contact each of the commissioners anyways and tell them what I think about our season structures. It doesn't hurt to try anyways.

 

[Eric Albus]

tjones, you are correct...bull/buck numbers are the problem.

 

[Eric Albus]

antler....I will attempt to answer your questions tomorrow. I have to give that some thought.....

 

[Eric Albus]

antler,

You are correct in thinking that current management in general season areas is what has helped push landowners into leasing. The landowners I personally deal with have a lot of pride in their ranches, cattle, and wildlife.

I have stated this many times, "if accessible lands were managed for quality we would not longer have a perceived access issue" .

 

[antlerradar]

antler,



I have stated this many times, "if accessible lands were managed for quality we would not longer have a perceived access issue" .

You may very well be right. My father outfitted in the 60's and 70's. He hunted our place, some of the neighbors and public. He didn't pay for hunting rights. Even on our own place people that asked got to hunt. There was no need to pay for hunting or restrict access as quality hunt could be found just about everywhere.

 

[u1299]

I’m all for managing for better quality but just what quality are you (we) looking for, the quality of the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s, 80’s, 90’s ? Like I said before you’re dreaming if you think it’s even remotely possible to return to the good old days of big bucks everywhere no matter how short and restrictive of seasons you implement. Too much in the way of new technology, habit loss and human population increases have changed and will continue to change to allow us to return to the good old days. I’m all for closing more roads and essentially making more walk in areas (many more), along with somewhat shorter seasons. This won’t go over well with the 4 wheeler crowd I assure you..

 

[vanish]

I have stated this many times, "if accessible lands were managed for quality we would not longer have a perceived access issue" .

Not sure I can buy that argument. As I teenager, I hunted all the neighboring private properties next to our own house and cabin. I didn't hunt them because they produced quality deer, but because it was convenient. Nowadays, they're all leased out. The couple dozen people that used to hunt there now hunt public ground, and have been replaced by two guys that may or may not hunt that land all season.

 

[tjones]

Because its Nirvana here are some of the Bitterroot proposals.




http://ravallirepublic.com/news/loc...6e44ed9.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

 

[JLS]

I have stated this many times, "if accessible lands were managed for quality we would not longer have a perceived access issue" .

I don't disagree with many of your thoughts on mule deer harvest, but I do completely disagree with this. Look at states that DO manage for high quality on accessible lands (Nevada and Wyoming to name a couple) and you will still find the inaccessible private lands adjacent to those. Plenty of ranches in Wyoming are closed off unless you open your wallet.

Also, I don't think the access issue is perceived, it's very real. You can't manage for quality without reducing hunter pressure in some way. If you reduce hunter pressure, you've reduced opportunity, and without an increase in available lands the access issue is as real as they come.

I don't care how good the hunting is on public lands, if only 2 out of 10 people get to hunt there every year, the perception is now the reality.

 

[u1299]

Do shorter seasons alone increase quality, or simply increase hunting pressure due to the same number of hunters being in the field for a shorter period of time?

 

[JLS]

Do shorter seasons alone increase quality, or simply increase hunting pressure due to the same number of hunters being in the field for a shorter period of time?

Completely depends on the terrain, vegetation, land access.

 

[u1299]

In referring to accessible public lands, seems to me all public land whether easy or tough to access will see an increase in hunting pressure with the same number of hunters over a shorter time frame.

 

[JLS]

In referring to accessible public lands, seems to me all public land whether easy or tough to access will see an increase in hunting pressure with the same number of hunters over a shorter time frame.

Likely so. When you are referring to quality, what are your parameters? Shorter seasons can lead to higher escapement = better quality animals. It also increases the likelihood of more hunters being in the field at the same time = decreased perception of quality.

There is a happy medium in there somewhere. A week to week and half long season is horrible for compressing hunters. Montana could likely maintain a 5 1/2 week season by simply changing the timing of it and moving it forward by about three to four weeks.

 

[u1299]

I believe moving the season earlier and a shorter season but not to an extreme might be a good starting point. Archery season could be shortened as well, it’s time to come to grips with the fact archers are having a significant impact on the wildlife resource that wasn’t the case 30 or 40 years ago.

 

[bigsky2]

Do shorter seasons alone increase quality, or simply increase hunting pressure due to the same number of hunters being in the field for a shorter period of time?

I don't think there's any question that shorter seasons increase quality if that means eliminating a week or two of rut hunting. There will likely be more hunters in the field at the same time, but at the same time there will be more older age class deer. In my opinion, protecting the resource gets the edge over hunter experience as far as what is more important.

I have been contacting the regional citizen advisory members to discuss our deer season structure and one of the members from Region 1 told me there were only 50 mule deer bucks through the check stations in the entire region this year. That is 1/3 of normal.

 

[Bambistew]

Question for you guys that want to shorten the season. Has it helped in all the areas that it is currently shorter?