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Montana - Time to Shake it Up?

I think the varied anecdotes are really interesting, and it underscores one of the difficulties. Management changes should be local in consideration, but one cannot leave out the fact that old pressure is likely to shift and so considerations also need to be statewide.

I live in HD 335, a district in which hunter days on the landscape has nearly doubled in the last decade and a half. It’s superb deer habitat, and I can still go out and see 50 or 60 deer in a morning in half a dozen groups. Almost none of those will be bucks, and the ones that are will be teenagers in deer years. I believe this situation is a function of hunter numbers, bucks on general tags, and rut hunting. There are more elk in 335 right now than at any other time in my life.

20 miles south of me in HD 350, in the Whitetail Valley where I also grew up hunting, is some of the most superb deer habitat I’ve ever seen. As I child we’d see a hundred mule deer in a day, and often bucks that were interesting. That district has also seen a marked increase in hunter numbers and is roaded as hell. The deer situation there for both does and bucks is bleak, and the elk numbers are not high at all relative to the past. I believe the deer situation there is a function of the same stuff in 335 - too many hunters with too much access at too vulnerable a time.

IMG_6898.jpg


Here's a chart of the hunting districts of Region 3 randomly displayed along the x axis, and the hunter-days reported spent hunting deer – both mule deer and whitetail. A hell of a difference 17 years makes. Truly, for most hunters, days spent hunting deer are just a subset of days spent hunting elk - a statistic that has grown at an even greater rate. I left out a few districts that existed in 2004 but not today, and vice-versa.

1705095372907.png

I know that many factors are at play, but the one in the chart is chief in my mind as one of the greatest drivers of mule deer population/class issues as most districts are not LE. What is causing mule deer issues is varied as so many have spoken to, but I do think a throughline for most of western Montana is pressure – both year round and during hunting season. If we are going to keep the pressure we should shift it to when bucks, as well as wintering does, are less vulnerable. I strongly believe in outsized local input, because I believe locals understand issues best, and so landscape based mule-deer working groups could be a great solution, but their ideas have to have teeth – we would have to be willing to experiment and implement different solutions, as well as assess those solutions for efficacy.
 
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Ok.

Everyone, let's just give up.

Buzz says it's not worth it.
Garbage in, garbage out...I know, I collect and do analysis on data and have been for over 30 years.

Difference is, I'm held accountable if its not collected correctly and it's not reliable.
 
Garbage in, garbage out...I know, I collect and do analysis on data and have been for over 30 years.

Difference is, I'm held accountable if its not collected correctly and it's not reliable.
But don’t you work in government?
 
But don’t you work in government?
WTF does that have to do with anything?

Want to compare procedures, data editing, quality control, collection methods, training, comparison tools, etc etc etc with how we collect data to the fwp?

Bring it...

Just make sure the fwp brings a thick notebook and a box of pens.
 
WTF does that have to do with anything?

Want to compare procedures, data editing, quality control, collection methods, training, comparison tools, etc etc etc with how we collect data to the fwp?

Bring it...

Just make sure the fwp brings a thick notebook and a box of pens.
Sorry, I was making a joke about government in general, the common complaint about no accountability, etc. and it fell flat.
 
Garbage in, garbage out...I know, I collect and do analysis on data and have been for over 30 years.

Difference is, I'm held accountable if its not collected correctly and it's not reliable.
It is pointless to argue about data collection and analysis methods. These days, people choose what data they want to believe anyway. Perfect example, NRs kill more deer than R is believed, but the rest of the harvest or population data is considered garbage. Another is those that want "science-based" decisions in game management but won't get vaccines. People are weird. Our ability to live in a constant state of cognitive dissonance is fascinating.
 
It is pointless to argue about data collection and analysis methods. These days, people choose what data they want to believe anyway. Perfect example, NRs kill more deer than R is believed, but the rest of the harvest or population data is considered garbage. Another is those that want "science-based" decisions in game management but won't get vaccines. People are weird. Our ability to live in a constant state of cognitive dissonance is fascinating.
Fwp has done themselves no favors in this department. Until they can actually look someone in the eye and say that x amount of bucks where killed in this state for the year why would anyone believe it?
 
Fwp has done themselves no favors in this department. Until they can actually look someone in the eye and say that x amount of bucks where killed in this state for the year why would anyone believe it?
I don't think it matters if it is MT or ID or any other state. People will only believe what they want to believe. Yes, I think MT should move to mandatory online reporting system (you know, because everyone else has and the argument not to is pretty weak) but I would bet people will find fault with the results of that too. Unless it says NRs are the problem, of course, because that is true. ;)
 
I don't think it matters if it is MT or ID or any other state. People will only believe what they want to believe. Yes, I think MT should move to mandatory online reporting system (you know, because everyone else has and the argument not to is pretty weak) but I would bet people will find fault with the results of that too. Unless it says NRs are the problem, of course, because that is true. ;)
Try and manage your check book without ever looking at what’s coming out of it only works so well for so long
 
Meh, I don't think this is even a concern at all with Mountain Whitetails. They don't congregate over water sources and feed. Second they're spread out over large geographic areas, elevation bands, etc.

Mountain whitetails are not anything like riverbottom/eastern Montana whitetails, at all.
They "yard up" in the winter.
 
Try and manage your check book without ever looking at what’s coming out of it only works so well for so long


I have ten year trend histories that show me I have just as many checks unwritten at the end of the year as I always did. My finances have to be solid because I still have half my checks. 😏
 
They "yard up" in the winter.
Not that much. Even if they do, when was the last time you saw midge infestations in November through March?

You hunt in November with a mosquito net?

Wait, don't answer that, I heard there's guys that wear gaiters to the Utah expo.
 
Not that much. Even if they do, when was the last time you saw midge infestations in November through March?

You hunt in November with a mosquito net?

Wait, don't answer that, I heard there's guys that wear gaiters to the Utah expo.
What does that have to do with CWD?
 
Just a thought. Montana already has e-tags. Could fwp improve the app, so they can collect real time data on harvest? If they had the data, would they use it?

Would a group like onX or others, chip in to create something like this for fwp? I know there are lots of businesses that chip in for other conservation projects.

Imagine if FWP had an app similar to onX that had all the way points for harvested deer. Toggle between seasons, toggle between NR and R. Etc etc. this data would have to be kept confidential, but it seems it would easily shine a very bright light on trends.
 
Just a thought. Montana already has e-tags. Could fwp improve the app, so they can collect real time data on harvest? If they had the data, would they use it?

Would a group like onX or others, chip in to create something like this for fwp? I know there are lots of businesses that chip in for other conservation projects.

Imagine if FWP had an app similar to onX that had all the way points for harvested deer. Toggle between seasons, toggle between NR and R. Etc etc. this data would have to be kept confidential, but it seems it would easily shine a very bright light on trends.
I’ve heard rumors why they didn’t add the harvest report to the e tag. Don’t care to go down that rabbit hole especially on this thread. A lot of people are currently worried about fwp finding their honey holes as is and won’t use e tags. If you added onX into the mix more people would get away from it.
 
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