Montana mule deer rant

OntarioHunter said:
Actually, the neiboring pay to play ranch has all the deer. Way too many. They wander out to feed in my BMA guy's wheat fields and range that isn't overgrazed. However, on the long drive out to the BMA property I often see lots of deer, usually on posted land of course. Did chase around a decent buck on another BMA property the morning I shot mine spotted as I drove out. Seven does and fawns with him. Blood all over the highway between Malta and Havre last night. Driving in a full moon after a day hunting birds in very cold wind I was surprised to only see one group of six muleys on that piece of highway. Going over the canal overpass east of Malta at night I just lean on the horn all the way. Deer are crossing there constantly. I have hit two in that spot. Fresh blood again yesterday.
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You can sit and tell us things are fine and all this nonsense but the guys that really know , Jonas, brockel, and most others on this site know things aren’t fine , things aren’t even bad , whatever past bad is , that’s where it’s at in regard to mule deer management in Montana . Carry on
 
EYJONAS! said:
I know one thing I'll be on the hunt for a guy that drives a tri-colored S10 pickup on the Hi-Line. Once I find that unicorn sounds like he'll lead me straight to gnaria-land of Montana Mule deer heaven......

Anyone have possible waypoint available?
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If you find a tri-colored S10 pickup it won't be me. Feel free to follow me when you figure it out but better be on time. It only took two days to shoot my buck this year. Three hours last year. Better have good legs too.
 
Hunters need to get an NGO or form one one to do game surveys to contradict or confirm FWP surveys.

The same NGO could also prepare a survey of both harvest and satisfaction.

FWP could simply add a few questions prior to allowing you to purchase a license and gather a ton of information quickly and easily.

MT hunters need to end the BS of shoot as many animals as you can get tags for. Donating meat, and tossing half of a dried up catcass in a dumpster or worse yet leaving it on the montian needs to change. It's a core value to leave neck, rib meat and shanks for the birds. You can always just shoot another animal. You don't see that shit up here, and people get crucified for it. Many Montanans do not value the animals they hunt for "food."

Montanans are the most selfish people in the US. Everyone hates somone else on a regional and statrwide basis. Either its the place they call home, where they moved from, or something else. Montana and CO to some extent and the only places I've ever been that people born there, consider themselves "natives" but look down their noses at actual natives. All while letting you know that their way is the right and only way. These people are just a generation or 2 generation away from being a "transplant" (more Montana bigotry) themselves😄 Being born somewhere is just another reason to hate on someone else in MT.

Until you can show FWP they're wrong nothing is going to change.

Until you can reduce the hate, nothing is going to change. Managing game based on local preference? Hahaha not surprised in the least. Suggesting you have a problem and don't have MT street cred, good luck.

Until Montanans actually put a value on wildlife, nothing will change.

Good luck. The season you're having is the best season of your life. No one notices that until next year. I said this a few years ago. Still ringing true, isn't it.

I can't help but remember that there used to he easily 3-4x as many mule deer in the places I used to hunt and spend time as a kid and young adult. Places in SW MT where you'd see 2-300 deer on winter ranges have 20-30 now maybe. We'd see 20-50 deer a day while hunting elk in the mountains, and my dad and grampa would talk about the giant bucks and all the deer they'd see in their early days. The deer are gone and not coming back. It's silly to belive we can manage them for abundance and quality and shoot them like we do. Many of those same places today, you'd be lucky to cut a track much less see a deer.

It would be interesting to see how long we've been bitching about this. I know I have for over 20 years and was persecuted for suggesting maybe we not hunt mule deer in the rut.

Until hunters actually show up, nothing will change. The longer you go with such terrible numbers the more people will remember it as normal. Just lower the quotas, set objectives lower, and all will be good.

I have 1000 bucks that says in 10 years we'll be having these exact same conversations. But it will be, do you remember how good it was in 2022 and we will be quoting Onteriohunter and how good he had it.

Good luck. Singed, a 5th generation "native" who hates 6 plates.
 
Bambistew said:
The longer you go with such terrible numbers the more people will remember it as normal. Just lower the quotas, set objectives lower, and all will be good.

I have 1000 bucks that says in 10 years we'll be having these exact same conversations. But it will be, do you remember how good it was in 2022 and we will be quoting Onteriohunter and how good he had it.

Good luck. Singed, a 5th generation "native" who hates 6 plates.
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This is the sad truth.
 
OntarioHunter said:
If you find a tri-colored S10 pickup it won't be me. Feel free to follow me when you figure it out but better be on time. It only took two days to shoot my buck this year. Three hours last year. Better have good legs too.
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I have been speed walking 2 times a day for a couple months now. So I think I could handle it...... maybe.

 
What we have lacked in my opinion is leadership. I am very happy to see Randy taking interest in the mule deer situation.
You can think what you want, but the average Joe will not fix our situation without leadership. The average Joe in the Eastern districts is not so different from the average Joe in region 3.
The average Joe did not bring game back from the brink without leadership and never would have.
You have to be willing to piss a lot of people off, maybe most people.
You have to decide what is the right thing to do for the resource and force it on the hunter. The problem is that MTFWP has no interest in doing what is right for the resource.
The same management that they use in the east was used in the west and is a total failure. It is beginning to fail in the
east and will fail eventually.
Half of the problem in the east is caused by the failure in the west. To give up on the west and say that the solution is in the hands of the average hunter in the east insures failure in my opinion.

What do we pay the game managers for?
To take opinion polls and do what the hunters want?
I grew up with a healthy respect for FWP but they have lost it, and I don't see them doing anything to earn it back.
I would never have believed that they would manage mule deer in MT to practical extinction on public land, but that is what I am seeing. Meanwhile they blame it on the very people who are paying them to manage the game.
Someone has to be the adult and it is unlikely to be the spoiled children.
 
One thing I think important to remember is the primary cause of mule deer decline in numbers and quality is sociological not biological.

Montana has adequate habitat and numbers to greatly improve numbers and quality from a biological perspective.

The major barrier is that resident hunters are either ignorant of the changes necessary to reverse the negative trajectory of deer numbers or are unwilling to make any perceived sacrifices to achieve improvement.
This is compounded by partisan politics by the majority party who uses FWP as a tool for their political benefit rather than responsible resource management.

Deflect the blame for declines towards every predator except humans. Make excuses for why the status quo is acceptable because hunters are believing the picture that FWP paints of the state of the resource and communicate they don’t want to give up opportunity when it is supposedly not necessary to do so. Then, discredit the experiences of people who disagree that the resource is in good shape by questioning their efforts to achieve success or their credentials for drawing a conclusion that quantity and quality is declining.

To accept that the resource is declining requires an acceptance that FWP has not achieved their mission of responsible resource management. Someone needs to be held accountable but it’s easier to deflect and blame or say things are just fine than it is to work towards something better than what we currently have.

The solution truly is political in nature in that the voices asking for change must become more compelling than the inertia of “the way it is, the way it’s going to be”.


It’s way past time to start the conversation…
 
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