Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

[DFS]

Managing deer hunting on public land involves balancing various factors such as habitat quality, population control, hunting pressure, and wildlife conservation goals. Challenges can arise due to complex ecological dynamics, limited resources, and differing stakeholder interests. Wildlife management is a multifaceted process that requires ongoing evaluation and adaptation to ensure sustainable hunting opportunities and healthy deer populations.

You are correct if we would all just donate more money to habitat this could all be turned around. Open the wallets and we can all continue to shoot every buck that moves in November.

 

[Elky Welky]

Kevin Farron with BHA weighs in on the state of mule deer in MT in this podcast. BHA has been criticized on this thread before for not engaging in the way some on this thread would like them to. If you want to know how BHA has been working on some of this, listen from 01:08:37 on. (And if you are unaware of the raffle, you can start from 01:00:30). Of course, if you really want a better idea of what MT-BHA is and does, listen to the whole thing.

https://shows.audiocdn.com/s/leeenterprises/montana-untamed/public-land-policy-how-b-e35d50

 

[DFS]

Kevin Farron with BHA weighs in on the state of mule deer in MT in this podcast. BHA has been criticized on this thread before for not engaging in the way some on this thread would like them to. If you want to know how BHA has been working on some of this, listen from 01:08:37 on. (And if you are unaware of the raffle, you can start from 01:00:30). Of course, if you really want a better idea of what MT-BHA is and does, listen to the whole thing.

https://shows.audiocdn.com/s/leeenterprises/montana-untamed/public-land-policy-how-b-e35d50

I just listened and I will not be donating $20. The license plates check out, shoot them til they are gone.

 

[Elky Welky]

I just listened and I will not be donating $20. The license plates check out, shoot them til they are gone.

If there was a way to place bets on here, I would have placed a bet on you saying something like this. You heard what you wanted to hear, but at least you are consistent. Again, for anyone unaware of the raffle, the funds go to MT-FWP's mule deer management efforts, not BHA.

 

[DFS]

If there was a way to place bets on here, I would have placed a bet on you saying something like this. You heard what you wanted to hear, but at least you are consistent. Again, for anyone unaware of the raffle, the funds go to MT-FWP's mule deer management efforts, not BHA.

if there was a way to bet on how BHA stands on a declining mule deer herd I would also have placed a bet. I believe they also supported elk shoulder season? Muzzleloader season? Every season that provides any opportunity to kill wildlife, at least they are consistent.

 

[WanderWoman]

if there was a way to bet on how BHA stands on a declining mule deer herd I would also have placed a bet. I believe they also supported elk shoulder season? Muzzleloader season? Every season that provides any opportunity to kill wildlife, at least they are consistent.

I’m fairly certain BHA has been adamant against shoulder seasons and any wildlife management by legislation.

 

[DFS]

I’m fairly certain BHA has been adamant against shoulder seasons and any wildlife management by legislation.

I will dig through public comment if I have to but I don’t believe that to be true.

 

[tjones]

I’m fairly certain BHA has been adamant against shoulder seasons and any wildlife management by legislation.

They backed the muzzle loader season.

 

[WanderWoman]

They backed the muzzle loader season.

My bad then, I stand corrected

 

[Elky Welky]

I will dig through public comment if I have to but I don’t believe that to be true.

I had been on the board for all of one month and take full responsibility for advocating for the muzzleloader season, 3 years ago, and we also retracted that position in favor of giving season setting authority to the commission. The logic behind the original support was that perhaps it would be a better way to move away from the shoulder season model. Unfortunately, that's not what happened.

They backed the muzzle loader season.

Two board members backed it, and then that position changed. We were wrong with backing it initially, and then fought to kill it for the reasons stated above.

 

[Elky Welky]

if there was a way to bet on how BHA stands on a declining mule deer herd I would also have placed a bet. I believe they also supported elk shoulder season? Muzzleloader season? Every season that provides any opportunity to kill wildlife, at least they are consistent.

But yet you got it wrong? Kevin stated that BHA supports the biologists positions, that BHA deferred to them when making management decisions, and pointed out that it was a good thing that they limited NR doe tags. He also strongly supports FWP putting together a citizen advisory group, advocates for CWD management, and explains how, when membership is split on an issue, BHA has to defer to the managing agency.

All a far nuanced take than what you seemed to get out of the podcast.

 

[Elky Welky]

I believe they also supported elk shoulder season?

Nope:

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/montana_bha_comments_on_shoulder_seasons

 

[DFS]

Nope:

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/montana_bha_comments_on_shoulder_seasons

I could be wrong but I think there is a higher up that advocated for making them valid for public land.

 

[Elky Welky]

I could be wrong but I think there is a higher up that advocated for making them valid for public land.

Giving you a like for acknowledging that you could be wrong . I have been wrong before (see muzzleloaders) too.

 

[rebjfan]

Rather than pollute the MT B&c mule deer thread, I thought I would start a new one.

So at a recent meet and greet held in Miles City mule deer management was brought up. The fwp career staff and biologists made statements that just shut my ability to have an open mind down such as “We are knocking it out of the park in regards to mule deer management”, “we had record counts with great age structure and many mature bucks in the counts in prairie county”, “the big bucks are out there for people that want to put the work in to get them”, “our counts are better than any limited entry unit in the west including utah, better than the Henry Mountains”.

Now from the way the dept is being run under worsech with the fwp local staff input being completely ignored especially regarding elk, I want and have tried to support the local career employees but when they come and make statements like that, that are complete 180 degrees from my 40 years of anecdotal experience as well as many others I know and greatly respect that spend as much or more time than I do watching mule deer, I have to ask:

1) what am I missing or what are they missing, that we can be so polar opposite in regards to the current management and state of the mule deer herd?(elk we are on the same page)
2) if a career employee is so far off(I would strongly suggest they are) why should we the public support them on other issues?

I have got to say this one has always baffled me. It’s like a bio works for fwp and all of a sudden they have drank the koolaid and unwilling to consider the impacts our season structure has on the herd. It would be refreshing if they were just honest about it. Say for example “with our season structure very few bucks make it past age 3. Our counts and buck to die ratio however are still healthy”. Those arguably might be more defenseable statements. Fire away. Someone explain to me where I am erring. Thanks

As a deer biologist said in Mississippi ‘just because you have chased women all your life does not make you a gynecologist’. With that being said I think the Mississippi biologist could come help y’all with your mule deer management.

 

[DFS]

Either way it’s time for organizations like BHA or mule deer foundation to stand up for a healthy mule deer herd. With Montana season structure that won’t happen no matter how much money you burn.

 

[DFS]

@Elky Welky for as much as you hate this thread you keep coming back for more.

 

[Elky Welky]

@Elky Welky for as much as you hate this thread you keep coming back for more.

Oh I don't watch it and get consistent notifications because it is an absolute cluster, but I am paying attention. And will pop in every once in a while.

And contrary to popular belief, much of what I see gets relayed, because I am doing the best I can to advocate for the things I care about; sustainable mule deer hunting in my home state being one of them.

Or I'm just a sucker for punishment.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Either way it’s time for organizations like BHA or mule deer foundation to stand up for a healthy mule deer herd. With Montana season structure that won’t happen no matter how much money you burn.

Its not apart of their mission statement? Or what their membership gives money to them for?

Why doesnt the RMEF stand up for the second amendment? Why doesnt the NRA care about online free speech? Wheres the aclu on elk objectives?

You sound like you are yelling at clouds.

 

[DFS]

Oh I don't watch it and get consistent notifications because it is an absolute cluster, but I am paying attention. And will pop in every once in a while.

And contrary to popular belief, much of what I see gets relayed, because I am doing the best I can to advocate for the things I care about; sustainable mule deer hunting in my home state being one of them.

Or I'm just a sucker for punishment.

Continue the path we will see about sustainability.