Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

[DFS]

Its not apart of their mission statement? Or what their membership gives money to them for?

Why doesnt the RMEF stand up for the second amendment? Why doesnt the NRA care about online free speech? Wheres the aclu on elk objectives?

You sound like you are yelling at clouds.

Turn your on-x layer on to lands rmef has preserved or opened access to.

Edit: maybe even saved a few from energy development.

 

[Elky Welky]

Continue the path we will see about sustainability.

To @MtEngineer's point, every conservation org has a mission. RMEF is about elk, not trout, MDF is about mule deer, not ducks, etc. BHA is saddled with one of the broadest missions of any conservation org:

"Backcountry Hunters & Anglers seeks to ensure North America's outdoor heritage of hunting and fishing in a natural setting, through education and work on behalf of wild public lands, waters, and wildlife."

So although MT's mule deer fall within that mission, enough so that MT-BHA has taken on the significant task of fundraising for mule deer conservation with FWP, that isn't the only fish BHA is frying. And a point I made on another thread: blaming any conservation org for your woes is the same as throwing water on the firefighters and not the fire.

If you really want to know what MT-BHA is about, scroll through this page:
https://www.backcountryhunters.org/tags/Montana_BHA?page=1
And if you really want to see the volume of statewide issues MT-BHA took on in just 3 months:
https://www.backcountryhunters.org/montana_bha_s_2023_legislative_session_recap

I know mule deer in Eastern MT is your jam, but there's a wider mission at play. I raised the podcast earlier and encourage you to listen to the whole thing, so you can see how mule deer fit in to that broader mission.

And if you really want to get a state chapter of a national organization with that broad of a mission to fight for this single issue, nobody is stopping you from throwing your name in to be the Eastern MT Board Member, that position is open: https://www.backcountryhunters.org/eastern_board_member

 

[GearJunky]

Sorry for rehashing something that has probably already been discussed… how does 410 go from a general tag to LE of only 100 tags. Yet the Custer remains general???

Is 410 really that bad off (relative to the Custer), or were we lucky that 410 got changed and the Custer is a huge miss??

 

[bigsky2]

410 is bad. I can’t speak on the Custer.

 

[DFS]

Sorry for rehashing something that has probably already been discussed… how does 410 go from a general tag to LE of only 100 tags. Yet the Custer remains general???

Is 410 really that bad off (relative to the Custer), or were we lucky that 410 got changed and the Custer is a huge miss??

Buy your tickets. If you win you could hunt both.

 

[mtmiller]

Is 410 really that bad off (relative to the Custer), or were we lucky that 410 got changed and the Custer is a huge miss??

 

[rogerthat]

Sorry for rehashing something that has probably already been discussed… how does 410 go from a general tag to LE of only 100 tags. Yet the Custer remains general???

Is 410 really that bad off (relative to the Custer), or were we lucky that 410 got changed and the Custer is a huge miss??

First issue is the Custer is not its own unit so is lumped in with the rest of region 7. However I wouldn’t be surprised if the numbers if they had them(they don’t for just the Custer) weren’t that much different than 410. The biggest issue is 410 has a biologist that cares. Unfortunately the region 7 staff don’t.

 

[GearJunky]

Thank you for the info, guess I have been living under a rock.

 

[Schism]

Is 410 really that bad off (relative to the Custer), or were we lucky that 410 got changed and the Custer is a huge miss??

I joined a long time friend (MT resident) on a 410 rifle elk hunt in 2022. It was the first time I had hunted 410 although I've spent many days in regions 3,6,7. We covered some beautiful country but I'm still amazed at the lack of deer that we encountered in 410. R7 is nothing like it was in the 80's when I was growing up but I have to believe 410 is even worse off than R7.

 

[Ought Six]

I joined a long time friend (MT resident) on a 410 rifle elk hunt in 2022. It was the first time I had hunted 410 although I've spent many days in regions 3,6,7. We covered some beautiful country but I'm still amazed at the lack of deer that we encountered in 410. R7 is nothing like it was in the 80's when I was growing up but I have to believe 410 is even worse off than R7.

The Washington folks think it’s the cats meow though, and so do the game wardens

 

[Forkyfinder]

I joined a long time friend (MT resident) on a 410 rifle elk hunt in 2022. It was the first time I had hunted 410 although I've spent many days in regions 3,6,7. We covered some beautiful country but I'm still amazed at the lack of deer that we encountered in 410. R7 is nothing like it was in the 80's when I was growing up but I have to believe 410 is even worse off than R7.

Been trending that way - i didnt spend any time there this year but i saw the decay fron 2016-22.

I suspect its a lot of elk cow hunters (1000+ b tags) getting after them over the years.

 

[Bambistew]

Mule deer are saved!!Back country humpers and anglers has joined the money machine and will save the day by raising money for "conservation."

I can't wait to see how much "conservation" they provide.

 

[brockel]

Sorry for rehashing something that has probably already been discussed… how does 410 go from a general tag to LE of only 100 tags. Yet the Custer remains general???

Is 410 really that bad off (relative to the Custer), or were we lucky that 410 got changed and the Custer is a huge miss??

Having hunted 410 and the eastern part of the Custer they are both VERY similar. But the Custer falls into the region 7 cash cow so it will take a scorched earth before there are any major region 7 changes.

 

[Elky Welky]

Mule deer are saved!!Back country humpers and anglers has joined the money machine and will save the day by raising money for "conservation."

I can't wait to see how much "conservation" they provide.

All of the funds raised in the raffle go to FWP's mule deer management. I also suggest actually reading the post above, which answers your second point. Attacking volunteers and throwing shade on people in the ring achieves nothing here.

 

[TOGIE]

i threw this chart together this morning for unrelated purposes and then realized i should drop it in here to give you guys some more motivation. hopefully it can help you talk about something other than the pointless whining about and throwing misappropriated shade at BHA.

colorado started eliminating general otc on deer hunting throughout the 90's and i believe we were fully limited by '97 if i'm remembering correctly. i don't think these numbers are coincidental, at all.

you've been able to still get a tag every single year and go hunting somewhere in the state with plenty of mule deer to shoot ever since that change and a lotta dudes claimed they were gonna give it up for good when DOW eliminated general hunting.

 

[Elky Welky]

i threw this chart together this morning for unrelated purposes and then realized i should drop it in here to give you guys some more motivation. hopefully it can help you talk about something other than the pointless whining about and throwing misappropriated shade at BHA.

colorado started eliminating general otc on deer hunting throughout the 90's and i believe we were fully limited by '97 if i'm remembering correctly. i don't think these numbers are coincidental, at all.

you've been able to still get a tag every single year and go hunting somewhere in the state with plenty of mule deer to shoot ever since that change and a lotta dudes claimed they were gonna give it up for good when DOW eliminated general hunting.

View attachment 317551

Thanks @TOGIE. It’s never my intent to derail this thread (although I do wonder how much it’s ever been on the rails). I was instead hoping to help people understand the position MT-BHA has to take on these issues by sharing the recent Montana Untamed podcast. But it’s hard to get a bunch of people who don’t want to understand something to understand something. You can lead a horse to water and all that jazz.

This chart is interesting, thanks for putting it together.

 

[TOGIE]

Thanks @TOGIE. It’s never my intent to derail this thread (although I do wonder how much it’s ever been on the rails). I was instead hoping to help people understand the position MT-BHA has to take on these issues by sharing the recent Montana Untamed podcast. But it’s hard to get a bunch of people who don’t want to understand something to understand something. You can lead a horse to water and all that jazz.

This chart is interesting, thanks for putting it together.

my words were never directed at you

 

[Elky Welky]

my words were never directed at you

Haha I can handle it.

To your chart, can you help us understand some of the factors that went into CO deciding to limit OTC tags entirely? The MT model works quite different, because an OTC tag is statewide for mule deer and whitetail, and then each district determines what that general tag is good for.

 

[tjones]

I was instead hoping to help people understand the position MT-BHA has to take on these issues by sharing the recent Montana Untamed podcast. But it’s hard to get a bunch of people who don’t want to understand something to understand something. You can lead a horse to water and all that jazz.

Probably a good thing you are an attorney because as salesman or company spokesperson you would most certainly fail.

 

[sclancy27]

View attachment 317519

Someone explain to me how 23:100 spring fawn to doe is caused by hunting....