Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

[Deleted member 48080]

It varies depending on the season. In Billings, I heard they love apples. No mule deer in Montana saw an apple until like 1975. Like when cocaine hit Miami. Same impact.

Always hitting hard with the facts.

 

[SAJ-99]

Always hitting hard with the facts.

View attachment 301147

It was a joke, but I like your contribution on the history of apples in MT. If apples were the secret ingredient,
WA would have a ton of mule deer. It doesn’t.

 

[Deleted member 48080]

It was a joke, but I like your contribution on the history of apples in MT. If apples were the secret ingredient,
WA would have a ton of mule deer. It doesn’t.

Oh, funny!

 

[SAJ-99]

Oh, funny!

Glad to see you still have a sense of humor in there somewhere. Why are you so cranky? The rut is just getting started.

 

[Deleted member 48080]

Glad to see you still have a sense of humor in there somewhere. Why are you so cranky? The rut is just getting started.

In 11 days in a limited entry mule deer unit this fall and I've seen 2 does and 2 fawns. Just figured I'd stop by and see what everyone else was seeing.

I'm having a hard time believing the Custer is worse than that, but I don't know that area well.

I'll bring my silly goose hat next time.

 

[SAJ-99]

In 11 days in a limited entry mule deer unit this fall and I've seen 2 does and 2 fawns. Just figured I'd stop by and see what everyone else was seeing.

I'm having a hard time believing the Custer is worse than that, but I don't know that area well.

I'll bring my silly goose hat next time.

No one I have talked to has been seeing much. Weather seems warm, which might have some effect on deer movement. It is tough, so I have some sympathy. The hard reality is that the only thing saving mule deer is city limits and private landowners. Some places like Roundup are trying to eliminate the city limits as a sanctuary.

 

[rogerthat]

No one I have talked to has been seeing much. Weather seems warm, which might have some effect on deer movement. It is tough, so I have some sympathy. The hard reality is that the only thing saving mule deer is city limits and private landowners. Some places like Roundup are trying to eliminate the city limits as a sanctuary.

Hey @SAJ-99 do you get your info from the “Washington residents hunting Montana Facebook page? If not you better get joined up. I heard they give out waypoints and such to the big boys.

 

[rogerthat]

In 11 days in a limited entry mule deer unit this fall and I've seen 2 does and 2 fawns. Just figured I'd stop by and see what everyone else was seeing.

I'm having a hard time believing the Custer is worse than that, but I don't know that area well.

I'll bring my silly goose hat next time.

I stand corrected. Yeah that’s bad

 

[DFS]

Hey @SAJ-99 do you get your info from the “Washington residents hunting Montana Facebook page? If not you better get joined up. I heard they give out waypoints and such to the big boys.

Is that a real thing? The last couple days I think I’ve seen more Washington plates than Montana out hunting.

 

[rogerthat]

Is that a real thing? The last couple days I think I’ve seen more Washington plates than Montana out hunting.

Yeah I tried to join but you need a Washington address. Anyone want to donate?

 

[SAJ-99]

Those Wash plates are all people that are the come home to hunt tags. They moved to a state where they could make a decent living, apparently. Thank the MT legislature for letting them come back to fill the freezer.

 

[rogerthat]

Those Wash plates are all people that are the come home to hunt tags. They moved to a state where they could make a decent living, apparently. Thank the MT legislature for letting them come back to fill the freezer.

We got a booming economy in Bozeman!! No need to leave the state. Let’s all move to Bozeman.

 

[SwaggyD]

He's probably a moderator of the page! #dontletrogerin

 

[brockel]

Is that a real thing? The last couple days I think I’ve seen more Washington plates than Montana out hunting.

Made the trip from baker to miles city this morning and couldn’t believe the amount of hunters out and about. Almost every public land or BMA approach had a vehicle at it and then all of them driving was nuts. Use to look this way opening weekend. Now with deer numbers and quality in the shitter more are using the crutch of the rut to bring out the last of the going down hill old warriors.

 

[westbranch]

Took a detour yesterday to see some new country, I drove from Glendive to Glasgow yesterday just before sunset. Not many deer, one ok buck on private chasing around some does. This morning continued on W and SW taking some back roads and state highways, saw a few mule deer bucks (I have never shot a mule deer) I would shoot but overall not many deer. Some areas had quite a few empty BMA parking spots and BLM land. But some had a lot of hunters around .

This little guy will be lucky to make Christmas when he stands in a ditch on BLM land like this:

 

[WanderWoman]

And I’m not buying the habitat argument. Have you seen the shrub and forb regrowth on the north faces in much of these burned areas? The choke cherries went nuts. Yea the south faces to me do have much more cheatgrass but I don’t think that’s good for anything including elk. But I’m not a vegetation expert either. I will state this. I can’t think of worse place in Montana to spend time hunting deer right now than the Custer.

I am not ether. I see winter fat that is knee high, rabbit brush as tall as me and the south faces are covered with sumac. Feed is not the issue on the Custer.

As @sclancy27 said, fire does wonders for mule deer (provided it’s not too severe) but generally that starts to ebb 3-5 years post-fire (hmm right around the time we had a flash drought in 2017 followed by one of the worse winters we’ve had in 2017-18, followed by droughts in 2020, 2021, 2022… in my neck of the woods there has also been a grasshopper siege occurring since 2019. So when deer were finally starting to bounce back after winter 2010-11, they got hit by 17-18 and then have been getting hammered by drought since. There’s cumulative effects (e.g., weather, habitat, predation/hunting) and lag effects (e.g., Where are the 5 and 6 year old bucks? They died as fawns or weren’t born in 2017 and 2018) all interacting to affect populations and what we see (or in today’s case, don’t see) out there.

A doe’s nutrition affects pregnancy rates, gestation, birth weight, fawn survival, and as research has suggested a buck’s antler growth potential, and nutrition has been subpar across much of MT (except urban backyards, gardens, and ag fields) for several years at least. It’s great that this year is looking phenomenal but a turnaround in terms of mule deer populations will take multiple years of good conditions. And I’m not really holding my breath that we’ll get that given what the last decade or more has been (almost let “climate change” slip there). This is not an excuse to not manage, but it’s a constraint on how even the best management may not take hold for a while.

It’s great to hear and see the woody shrub and browse component doing well this year, that will help critters make it through the winter if they are doing ok going into it. Nutritious forbs in the spring and summer (grasses in early spring to some extent) are what make or break deer though (bringing this back to them being concentrate selectors). Shrubs are never as nutritious as growing-season forbs, but they get the job done when everything else is buried/inaccessible from snow or otherwise unpalatable/turned to litter and duff. And even with a lot of the shrubs, deer are feeding/relying on new leader growth. Later succession and drought years will affect leader growth and reduce the nutritive quality of said browse even if the plant itself looks robust and big. And just like deer, plants themselves need time to recover and rebuild reserves from drought.

 

[sclancy27]

Saw 16 does and fawns last night, 24 deer this morning, 5 bucks. 3 dinks, other 2 were decent. Not shooting decent, but nicer to see than an army of forkhorns. And one big ol 6x6 bull. Nothing with does but the twig army.

 

[TheTone]

Dead spike buck I just saw on Facebook with a MT non resident; his comment was essentially hunt was a grind but he was going home with meat

 

[Tlrussell]

I hunt a lot and have a pretty good basis of local populations around the house and areas I drive often.

Went out a couple days ago. Hunted a piece of public that is very hard to access. About 500 acres surrounded by thousands of acres of private.

It was the best deer hunt I’ve been on in MT in 5 years.

We got into deer almost immediately. Bucks and does, whiteys and muleys. Had several groups located in different areas. Hunted the whole zone. Awesome. Didn’t shoot anything.

I cannot comment on habitat. I have no expertise. But I know that where hunting pressure is managed i/e private or hard to access public, there are animals being animals.

1. Montana simply gives out too many tags.
1a) with almost no restrictions

What am I missing?

 

[rogerthat]

I hunt a lot and have a pretty good basis of local populations around the house and areas I drive often.

Went out a couple days ago. Hunted a piece of public that is very hard to access. About 500 acres surrounded by thousands of acres of private.

It was the best deer hunt I’ve been on in MT in 5 years.

We got into deer almost immediately. Bucks and does, whiteys and muleys. Had several groups located in different areas. Hunted the whole zone. Awesome. Didn’t shoot anything.

I cannot comment on habitat. I have no expertise. But I know that where hunting pressure is managed i/e private or hard to access public, there are animals being animals.

1. Montana simply gives out too many tags.
1a) with almost no restrictions

What am I missing?

Nothing