Pull the other incisors. Matsons can age off those also. You just mark them per the guidance Matson provides I1,I2,etc.
An old warrior that would have never made the winter.
In the case of this buck, that overused axiom might be true.An old warrior that would have never made the winter.
Having only hunted mule deer since 2019 in this state. I can’t offer much in the way of firsthand knowledge about overall herd integrity and sustainability from a past perspective looking forward. What I can offer though is anecdotal accounts from veteran hunters who have been at it for 4 decades or more. The folks I’ve spoken with in the eastern units would all attest to what you’re saying here. In a nutshell, mismanagement abounds. It would seem only fair for FWP to honor their resident hunters perspectives if they want to correct the ship and get it back on course, or it seems the now norm will become the new norm.
I would like to guess where that buck was shot but it seems my hunt talk activity has been limited. Especially DM’s.
So instead of follow the data we are now at "follow the opinions of grizzled veterans who have been hunting the land for 4 decades or more"?
You are correct @antlerradar has much more knowledge than me. I would lean on him heavily.
I’m not arguing that fact. It would be illogical to magically assume that in the face of increasing hunting pressure, herd size and quality should increase. Cutting tags is an appropriate measure in my opinion as well. At least for a time, then reassess.
Agreed. Those are certainly variables in the equation that need to be considered. You just have to understand that they are getting pressure saying it is hard to kill a deer so extend the seasons or get rid of permits, etc. People are weird. They have varying opinions on pretty much everything. Listening to them makes the job harder. Data is different. I want a biologist to be able to retire and the new hire to step in and look at the same data trends and counts and say "I understand". The problem has been more of one where "political" influence has made biologist views less forthright. The data is the data. It doesn't have an opinion, but there are a lot of people that do. I just want clarity in the process and for it to be managed for the best interest of the resource and not for the public/private, R/NR, veteran/new resident hunter. I think we all come to the same place if we do that.
Now if we just had that data…
But we do, right that’s the argument here. It seems that the FWP is doing their job, the contention is that it’s just too late. Not necessarily too little too late. Just too late. Time will tell. I can tell you after reading about half of what was suggested just for region 4 2024/2025 regulation and quota adjustments, they are definitely doing their job. Perhaps more transparency about why the changes seems slow to implement or less significant than some who want to protect the vital resources they are griping about would go a long way. The obvious truth, which has been said by many other more notable and experienced patrons than myself here, in a nutshell is this: you can’t make everyone happy. If the opportunity to hunt here in Montana for residents becomes as difficult or even half as difficult both from a statistical and/or financial perspective as it is for non-residents, can you imagine the hell that would be raised? I’m adding a link here from FWP that shows the Region 4 proposed changes for mule deer (there are also sections regarding elk hunting although I am not here to comment about elk hunting regulation changes).Now if we just had that data…
Walk into region 7 and ask for their data and see how far you get.
They have the data. You can get the data if you ask (but from personal experience, it might be a fight). The whole theme of this thread is basically some Rs not understanding that they are fighting a whole gaggle of other Rs that think that the hunting is bad but they need MORE opportunity. I agree to cut NR tags, but your problem is pressure over a shrinking area (huntable land).Now if we just had that data…
Have you filled out any FOIA paperwork and still not gotten anywhere? Just curious.
No. But that is exactly what it takes.
Haha. Ok. They don’t have accurate harvest reporting. They don’t have any idea who is hunting where. How many deer harvested on private? How many harvested on public? What is the average age of the bucks harvested? What are the avg number of points? What are the average spread? I could go on and on. Just a smattering of data points that don’t get collected that do by other agencies. That’s not even getting into the accuracy of the data they actually track. Frankly their data sucks.
