Montana General Season Structure Proposal

[peterk1234]

I think my question is on topic, so here it goes.

I do not understand the logic behind taking out the larger bucks from the population if you are trying to improve the quality of the herd.

Why not limit it to 2x2s only, for example, and no doe tags for let's say the next five years? That's how natural selection works. The big strong ones mate and the weak die.

Plus, imposing limits like this would likely discourage a lot of people from traveling very far to hunt in the state, both resident and non resident.

I'm sure I'm not understanding something, but I'm not sure what it is.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I think it was Eric that kept bringing that up. Clearly he has a problem with the state.

The reason hunters feel theres more NR killing deer in these districts is cause they see it, hear about it, read about it, and the statistics prove it. Frankly - a few folks should do some reflection, these frustrations are natural and folks would feel the same if their local outdoor recreation became dominated by non-locals the same way.

Eric seemed like he was simply parroting a talking point to add some humor and relate to some of the listeners. I get how that might make someone feel singled out, though.

 

[SAJ-99]

The reason hunters feel theres more NR killing deer in these districts is cause they see it, hear about it, read about it, and the statistics prove it. Frankly - a few folks should do some reflection, these frustrations are natural and folks would feel the same if their local outdoor recreation became dominated by non-locals the same way.

Eric seemed like he was simply parroting a talking point to add some humor and relate to some of the listeners. I get how that might make someone feel singled out, though.

I didn’t see the humor. The problem is the more it is parroted the higher chance of someone doing something stupid like vandalism or verbal confrontations. We have all heard those stories. And if you don’t like NRs, PAY MORE FOR YOUR TAGS!

 

[Gerald Martin]

I just listened to the podcast.

I am from Washington and I have never hunted region 4, 5, 6 or 7. I just wanted Gerald to know.

I like the idea of no mule deer hunting during November with rifle. I have been trying to get Washington to change that for years. People don’t like change.

Would you consider an archery season for mule deer the first 2 weeks in November? Maybe a choose your weapon option for deer so that they aren’t also able to hunt in October.

I think that was Eric, but having lived and hunted in region 1 primarily I can attest to the amount of Washington plates that used to crowd NW MT. Since wolves became more prevalent in the NW, the overall amount of NR in that area and Washington plates as well have declined.


Obviously, there’s a bit of hyperbole and generalization in everyone’s perception of problems and solutions. It’s easier to be cranky about “outsiders” taking “our” deer than it is to be mad at “locals”.

There’s a social “carrying capacity” that each state has for the amount of NR until folks start looking to limit competition for “their” resources.
Through no fault of the NR hunters who are buying the product, the Montana Legislature and FWP have created “opportunity” that has exceeded that social acceptance.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I didn’t see the humor. The problem is the more it is parroted the higher chance of someone doing something stupid like vandalism or verbal confrontations. We have all heard those stories. And if you don’t like NRs, PAY MORE FOR YOUR TAGS!

If the choice were easy and mine to make - I'd love to and increase both. R more in terms of magnitude. Lots of R need an education (much like the one ive got since joining HT) about the funding side and how we dont foot the bill.

The legislature is wildly out of line with what hunters in this state want with it - ive grown fond of reminding them the folks representing us are the ones steering the ship, not fwp, and not NR hunters.

I can get how you dont appreciate it. But the humorous lack of humor is also lost on folks that have hunted the same areas for generations only to see them ruined.

 

[sclancy27]

I didn’t see the humor. The problem is the more it is parroted the higher chance of someone doing something stupid like vandalism or verbal confrontations. We have all heard those stories. And if you don’t like NRs, PAY MORE FOR YOUR TAGS!

We actively did not pit NR vs R. There are issues with both groups, and we tried to find strategies that can incentivize behavioral change with both groups.

 

[huntin24/7]

I never really used to pay much notice to NR’s out hunting. They pay good money and have every right to hunt the same areas with their tag. The last 5 years though have substantially increased to the point that it would be great to see the same number of tags for them but with regional and species caps. They wouldn’t have to be evenly spread out by region, but spread out more would be reasonable.

 

[Carnage2011]

Have you been to region 6 and seen the amount of Washington hunters up here!? Eric isn’t wrong when it comes to that

I know this proposal started as a mule deer group. It obviously turned into a complete season overall, but you guys in 6/7 act like no one hunts any other part of the state. We deal with the exact same thing in region 3 with elk hunters (that kill every mule deer that walks). I’ve been in the upper ruby for the opener and I’ve been in eastern MT during November. They are both a shit show. However, I don’t think acting like regions 6/7 are the only parts of the state that get pressure is a good way to build momentum. We feel the exact same way in region 3.

 

[SAJ-99]

We actively did not pit NR vs R. There are issues with both groups, and we tried to find strategies that can incentivize behavioral change with both groups.

I think you guys did a good job. Sorry, I'm a little sensitive to the blaming of others for issues wholly in your control. I have a 10yr old and it's the default response I hear daily. I found it odd coming from the outfitter. Apparently Eric doesn't have any clients from WA. The good news is that in another thread, the blame is being spread to Rs from the other side of the state. So we got that going for us...which is nice.

 

[cgasner1]

I know this proposal started as a mule deer group. It obviously turned into a complete season overall, but you guys in 6/7 act like no one hunts any other part of the state. We deal with the exact same thing in region 3 with elk hunters (that kill every mule deer that walks). I’ve been in the upper ruby for the opener and I’ve been in eastern MT during November. They are both a shit show. However, I don’t think acting like regions 6/7 are the only parts of the state that get pressure is a good way to build momentum. We feel the exact same way in region 3.

It’s a big vast landscape why we got guys from across the state

 

[mukbowhunt]

I think that was Eric, but having lived and hunted in region 1 primarily I can attest to the amount of Washington plates that used to crowd NW MT. Since wolves became more prevalent in the NW, the overall amount of NR in that area and Washington plates as well have declined.


Obviously, there’s a bit of hyperbole and generalization in everyone’s perception of problems and solutions. It’s easier to be cranky about “outsiders” taking “our” deer than it is to be mad at “locals”.

There’s a social “carrying capacity” that each state has for the amount of NR until folks start looking to limit competition for “their” resources.
Through no fault of the NR hunters who are buying the product, the Montana Legislature and FWP have created “opportunity” that has exceeded that social acceptance.

Yes I had the wrong name. I still have never hunted those regions.

I own property and pay property taxes in Ravalli county. Maybe I am less evil now.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Yes I had the wrong name. I still have never hunted those regions.

I own property and pay property taxes in Ravalli county. Maybe I am less evil now.

Carpetbagger… driving up land prices…

Just yanking your chain. It’s all good.

 

[Ben Lamb]

People then ask why we didn't just address NR only. It's because there are other issues with Residents, primarily a significant increase in hunter days (which are equal to what an extra 18,000+ NR hunters on the landscape would do based on FWP's data) over the last 20 years. Hunter days = Pressure. We believe that the change in season structure should alleviate that pressure component from Residents, based on how Residents currently allocate themselves to mule deer vs whitetail deer harvest.

I really want folks to see this bolded part.

Overall resident hunters are declining, overall Hunter pressure from residents equates to 18,000 new hunters in the field. That is a massive part of the distribution & pressure issue.

 

[Ought Six]

I really want folks to see this bolded part.

Overall resident hunters are declining, overall Hunter pressure from residents equates to 18,000 new hunters in the field. That is a massive part of the distribution & pressure issue.

You got a quick link to the resident data for license purchases since 2019?

 

[Ben Lamb]

You got a quick link to the resident data for license purchases since 2019?

It's somewhere in here:

Montana General Season Structure Proposal

I think my question is on topic, so here it goes. I do not understand the logic behind taking out the larger bucks from the population if you are trying to improve the quality of the herd. Why not limit it to 2x2s only, for example, and no doe tags for let's say the next five years? That's...

www.hunttalk.com

 

[Flatbrimmer]

@mukbowhunt He might be yanking chains but saying that you’re from WA and you own some property over here may steer the impression one way or the other….

What is the property? Summer home? Hunting land? Place for the kiddos? You lease it out? You think the people before you bought it allowed locals access?

Obviously i do not know you or the answers but you see where that can go from a local standpoint.

 

[antlerradar]

There is no reason to call out a specific state. I have seen plates from Minnesota, North Dakota, Wisconsin, and a variety of other states.

I think Washington hunters stick out in regions 6 and 7 because you know that they have already driven across 3/4 of the state to get there.

 

[Forkyfinder]

You got a quick link to the resident data for license purchases since 2019?

Found, much like a forky

 

[Ought Six]

View attachment 346160

Just curious, what about new ALS numbers? (I know that doesn’t affect deer, as much)

 

[Forkyfinder]

Just curious, what about new ALS numbers? (I know that doesn’t affect deer, as much)

No idea on that one.