Montana FWP makes seismic shift in elk permits

[SAJ-99]

What I am saying is that we got to get hunters more distributed on the landscape. Landowner tags are a way of doing that. Obviously not the only way but we only get hunters on private with private land permission from guys like Eric.

Agree with Ben on this. LO tags simply monetize the resource and won't move a significant number of hunters around. If you give LO tags, you have to make sure the general hunter gets appropriate value in return, which usually equates to access.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Landowner Bull permits will make what people complain about now, a lot worse, and a lot faster.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I would be fine with firing all of FWP and letting Wyo F&G manage MT or CPW for that matter

I'd be fine with getting the politics & politicians out of the local & regional biologists' way and let them do their jobs. FWP has some amazing employees across the spectrum of that agency. We need to empower them to be the decision makers, not someone who was lucky enough to get 51% of the 30% of people in their district to vote for them.

 

[rogerthat]

I'd be fine with getting the politics & politicians out of the local & regional biologists' way and let them do their jobs. FWP has some amazing employees across the spectrum of that agency. We need to empower them to be the decision makers, not someone who was lucky enough to get 51% of the 30% of people in their district to vote for them.

Your 100% right but it’s too fun not to joke about it.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Your 100% right but it’s too fun not to joke about it.

There's a lot of us who have heard from folks on the ground about what they're facing, and they're losing hope fast. What we say here has a reverberating effect with those folks who hustle day in and day out for wildlife, and those who are involved in the issues. I know you're joking, but I think we need to recognize that there's a whole agency here that's trying to figure out how to engage with an administration that has less than zero regard for them.

 

[rogerthat]

Landowner Bull permits will make what people complain about now, a lot worse, and a lot faster.

My biggest complaint is too many fricken hunters on public land. I couldn’t care less what the private guys do on their private land. Maybe they would spook an elk back onto public probably not. I just want a quality experience on public lands. I fail to see how landowner tags would make it worse than it currently is. Might crush a bunch of trophy bulls on private but we aren’t crushing them anyway on public anymore. But I don’t hunt private and don’t care to ever so I suspect I have a blind spot.

 

[rogerthat]

There's a lot of us who have heard from folks on the ground about what they're facing, and they're losing hope fast. What we say here has a reverberating effect with those folks who hustle day in and day out for wildlife, and those who are involved in the issues. I know you're joking, but I think we need to recognize that there's a whole agency here that's trying to figure out how to engage with an administration that has less than zero regard for them.

To this point the local fwp guys at the region 7 meeting did a fantastic job last night. I know the zoom call might have been tough but in person they did a great job. Best fwp public meeting I have been to. I usually have left them very angry

 

[BuzzH]

There's a lot of us who have heard from folks on the ground about what they're facing, and they're losing hope fast. What we say here has a reverberating effect with those folks who hustle day in and day out for wildlife, and those who are involved in the issues. I know you're joking, but I think we need to recognize that there's a whole agency here that's trying to figure out how to engage with an administration that has less than zero regard for them.

Lets also not pretend there are some real culls within the ranks of Biologists, etc. within MTFWP as well...

Some very good ones for sure and I do feel sorry for what they're going through. If I were one of them, I'd be applying non-stop in just about all of the 49 other states.

 

[Ben Lamb]

My biggest complaint is too many fricken hunters on public land. I couldn’t care less what the private guys do on their private land. Maybe they would spook an elk back onto public probably not. I just want a quality experience on public lands. I fail to see how landowner tags would make it worse than it currently is. Might crush a bunch of trophy bulls on private but we aren’t crushing them anyway on public anymore. But I don’t hunt private and don’t care to ever so I suspect I have a blind spot.

LO tags will keep bulls on private and not allow them to move off as hunting managers will work to ensure those animals stay on the private until such time as they are unwanted.

Reducing pressure on public land means choose your weapon/season and it means LE permits as opposed to unlimited or OTC. It means staggered seasons with a real reset time between them and it means elimination of shoulder seasons.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Lets also not pretend there are some real culls within the ranks of Biologists, etc. within MTFWP as well...

Some very good ones for sure and I do feel sorry for what they're going through. If I were one of them, I'd be applying non-stop in just about all of the 49 other states.

They're down around 30 positions from Wardens to Bio's. Heard that one of the DO's staff quit as well. She'd been running the admin side of the agency for a long time and was an amazing public employee. The fleeing is real.

 

[BuzzH]

LO tags will keep bulls on private and not allow them to move off as hunting managers will work to ensure those animals stay on the private until such time as they are unwanted.

Reducing pressure on public land means choose your weapon/season and it means LE permits as opposed to unlimited or OTC. It means staggered seasons with a real reset time between them and it means elimination of shoulder seasons.

BS...think outside the box.

Split deer/elk seasons so they don't run concurrent and make people choose where to spend their effort, money, time, and vacation. Too easy for a deer hunter to pop an elk if they see one, and too easy for an elk hunter to pop a deer if they see one.

Shorten the elk season by 2 weeks in archery and have a 14 day (or less) general rifle elk season.

Lots of things to try to get elk back on public land, longgggg before LE statewide for elk.

 

[rogerthat]

They're down around 30 positions from Wardens to Bio's. Heard that one of the DO's staff quit as well. She'd been running the admin side of the agency for a long time and was an amazing public employee. The fleeing is real.

Yeah I believe it. Tough deal. The bios I know got absolutely blind sided by Hank. When I told them I was suspicious of him and his motives they had told me “oh Hank he was in licensing. He is a good guy. He will be fine“. Bet there opinions may not be the same now.

 

[mtmiller]

Let's dumb it down:
1) A couple years of mandatory hunter reporting on deer and elk to see where the hunting is, where/what the harvest is.

I was told by FWP last night that won't work.

Mandatory reporting doesn't work in other states. MT calling a few folks to ask about one, maybe two species and if I saw a wolf is apparently a better route. SMFH

 

[Ben Lamb]

BS...think outside the box.

Split deer/elk seasons so they don't run concurrent and make people choose where to spend their effort, money, time, and vacation. Too easy for a deer hunter to pop an elk if they see one, and too easy for an elk hunter to pop a deer if they see one.

Shorten the elk season by 2 weeks in archery and have a 14 day (or less) general rifle elk season.

Lots of things to try to get elk back on public land, longgggg before LE statewide for elk.

I wasn't being specific to the whole state going to LE, but to those districts like the 23 bundled that were having issues relative to 90/10 & some landowners creating harboring situations.

I was told by FWP last night that won't work.

Mandatory reporting doesn't work in other states. MT calling a few folks to ask about one, maybe two species and if I saw a wolf is apparently a better route. SMFH

I've been told the same thing, plus that it would invalidate all those previous years data. I think it's a bit of a cop out, personally.

 

[BuzzH]

I wasn't being specific to the whole state going to LE, but to those districts like the 23 bundled that were having issues relative to 90/10 & some landowners creating harboring situations.


I've been told the same thing, plus that it would invalidate all those previous years data. I think it's a bit of a cop out, personally.

Yeah, I mean we wouldn't want to invalidate a bunch of crap data...

 

[MTTW]

Yeah, I mean we wouldn't want to invalidate a bunch of crap data...

That is exactly what they are afraid of. It is my opinion that their numbers are approaching criminally bullshit, to put it mildly.

 

[Gerald Martin]

That is exactly what they are afraid of. It is my opinion that their numbers are approaching criminally bullshit, to put it mildly.

I think at this point in time no one in FWP leadership has anything resembling comprehensive understanding of the status of elk management in MT.

 

[BuzzH]

I think at this point in time no one in FWP leadership has anything resembling comprehensive understanding of the status of elk management in MT.

Or deer...or bears...or lions...or upland birds...or squirrels.

 

[MTTW]

I think at this point in time no one in FWP leadership has anything resembling comprehensive understanding of the status of elk management in MT.

Their elk management is brilliant compared to their mule deer management. If I was them, black and white numbers would scare the hell out of me. I am talking numbers before GG, so we can't blame it on him. It would be pretty easy for them to prove me wrong. If I am wrong. I am betting they won't prove anything, because they like gray numbers.

 

[mtmiller]

They're down around 30 positions from Wardens to Bio's. Heard that one of the DO's staff quit as well. She'd been running the admin side of the agency for a long time and was an amazing public employee. The fleeing is real.

Missoula region FWP supervisor retires suddenly prior to elk season upheaval

As of Thursday, Mike Thompson is no longer the FWP Region 2 wildlife manager, according to FWP sources. Thompson’s departure appears to be short-notice, leaving some in Region 2 a little stunned. A few are suspicious.

missoulacurrent.com