Montana Fentanyl and Meth. Mexican Drug Cartel Focus.

[Southern Elk]

My youngest son died of a fentanyl overdose. It was 3 years ago and I found him right here in the room where I am now typing this. It changed my perception of what people who OD on drugs are like. I had incorrectly though of them as people on the fringes of society, down on their luck, depressed etc. My son was always a great athlete, a hard worker, a positive fun person to be around, the life of the family. Now he is dead.
So, I've had lot's of time to think about what happened, what or who to blame. And you do want to blame someone.

At first, as a parent, you blame yourself. After all, your #1 job is to protect your family, so how did I not see this coming. There were clues, did I just ignore them?

I blamed him of course. Why would he even want to take drugs? His mother and I don't drink, smoke, or do drugs and never have. However, he was a thrill seeker, who was willing to try anything, which was part of what made him fun to be around.

You want to blame the drug supplier. Where did he get the drugs? We supplied the local police with information on that, and where somewhat surprised to find out a month later that they never followed up. They were all ready to arrest him if he'd pulled through, but that's all they do, the easy stuff, fill the jails with drug users, wasting taxpayer money.. Going after the supply chain, the big time movers of drugs, that would be too dangerous.

Supply and demand are the real issues. If you try to stop supply from outside the US, do you just move more production to inside the US? Do you want that? Demand, what causes it? I don't really know. Is it that we live in a society now where we are constantly being bombarded with ads on TV telling us that taking drugs will solve our problems? Ask your doctor about x,y,z drug etc.

Sorry for your loss. I can’t even imagine.

 

[Irrelevant]

My youngest son died of a fentanyl overdose. It was 3 years ago and I found him right here in the room where I am now typing this. It changed my perception of what people who OD on drugs are like. I had incorrectly though of them as people on the fringes of society, down on their luck, depressed etc. My son was always a great athlete, a hard worker, a positive fun person to be around, the life of the family. Now he is dead.
So, I've had lot's of time to think about what happened, what or who to blame. And you do want to blame someone.

At first, as a parent, you blame yourself. After all, your #1 job is to protect your family, so how did I not see this coming. There were clues, did I just ignore them?

I blamed him of course. Why would he even want to take drugs? His mother and I don't drink, smoke, or do drugs and never have. However, he was a thrill seeker, who was willing to try anything, which was part of what made him fun to be around.

You want to blame the drug supplier. Where did he get the drugs? We supplied the local police with information on that, and where somewhat surprised to find out a month later that they never followed up. They were all ready to arrest him if he'd pulled through, but that's all they do, the easy stuff, fill the jails with drug users, wasting taxpayer money.. Going after the supply chain, the big time movers of drugs, that would be too dangerous.

Supply and demand are the real issues. If you try to stop supply from outside the US, do you just move more production to inside the US? Do you want that? Demand, what causes it? I don't really know. Is it that we live in a society now where we are constantly being bombarded with ads on TV telling us that taking drugs will solve our problems? Ask your doctor about x,y,z drug etc.

I'm terribly sorry to hear this. I simply can't imagine the pain you've gone (-are going) through.

 

[huntin24/7]

There really isn’t one way to fix the problem, nor can you ever completely fix it. To make things better though, I think it has to be addressed from several angles.

Demand: First, why is there such a high demand in the U.S. and other developed countries. I get to talk to Canadian RCMP and police officers fairly often through my job, and they also tell me about the increasing rampant drug problems they’re seeing. So, we first need to get more of a handle on why the demand is so high in our countries.

Punishment: Simply sending drug users to jail isn’t going to fix much of anything. More harsh penalties for those selling dangerous drugs and particularly harsh sentencing for anyone selling drugs that result in overdoses regardless of if the seller is aware of what they were peddling is a possible option. Also, potentially changing how known organized crime members are housed in prison, decreasing or eliminating any interaction between these fellow members during their time in prison could help. Not sure how feasible any of these ideas are, but just throwing out some ideas.

Rehab: Working at finding ways to make rehab more affordable, available, and effective for those addicted to these dangerous drugs.

I make no claims of being an expert on this, but the abuse of hard drugs in our country is terrifying as a parent of young kids and as big an issue as any our country is currently facing in my opinion.

 

[SAJ-99]

First, why is there such a high demand in the U.S. and other developed countries.

Rehab: Working at finding ways to make rehab more affordable, available, and effective for those addicted to these dangerous drugs.

It's a good question. Part of it may be just because of being the richest means people have more free time and that free time isn't always used wisely. But your second point has something to do with it as well. Our healthcare system is different than most other developed countries and getting these people help is often hard, at least harder than it should be. There are quite a few drugs that would help in breaking the addiction cycle, but the cost and availability may be prohibitive, or the people just can't stick with it. Addiction is powerful.

 

[Bullbrl]

Make drugs legal they say:


Portland: Declare state of emergency

 

[Stifler]

There really isn’t one way to fix the problem, nor can you ever completely fix it. To make things better though, I think it has to be addressed from several angles.

Demand: First, why is there such a high demand in the U.S. and other developed countries. I get to talk to Canadian RCMP and police officers fairly often through my job, and they also tell me about the increasing rampant drug problems they’re seeing. So, we first need to get more of a handle on why the demand is so high in our countries.

I just wonder if we really go back in time humans have always been looking to alter their minds. Hallucinigins.. alcohol..I'm sure others.. prehistoricly we have been using substances. What would the demand be back then? I'm not sure this is just a issue developed countries face. I think there will always be a demand. If we're happy we wanna celebrate, if we're sad we wanna cheer up... I'm just not sure where the happy medium is for allowing vs punishing. Something has gotta happen but I'm not sure what that something should be.

 

[JustinsDad]

This thread would likely be an INSTANT lock if opened for such content. I'm a target for reports to Randy if I start a thread that presents political ramifications of the border "issue", especially as hot a political topic as it is.
I typically don't shy from sharing my opinion related to U.S. garbage politics and this is my field of work - it's my bread & butter.

That said, the implications this has on Montana itself weighs on the interest to share the article, discuss what HT will permit us to discuss, and keep the thread open long enough to alert this State AND others that hold the same potential.

Personally, I am silently stunned we've managed 85 posts w/o a political dick measure fest for border/political chatter. We all know it's there. We all know the flavor our Kool aid serves - however, other significant aspects are present beyond our registered liquid
Let's remain focused on the content we can discuss on HT w/o the above repetitive @#)(# measurements.
Best I suggest is focus on what may be done at the Federal, State, and tribal Sovereignty level outside border politics.
How to: Target addiction, enforcement, legalities, jurisdiction, etc...

This issue holds heart felt value for Montana. If we ignore this - I don't want to really say it this way, we ignore a hostile future our children will confront.

Meat and potatoes, This cartel, now in Montana, have years upon years of experience w/o a care in the world for human life none the less health. They care about $$$.
They will kill, brutally torture, and maim or simply bury/liquify people to set examples to keep quiet.
They have been intentionally targeting Montana Tribal reservations for the safe haven the sovereign land offers because of the enforcement conundrum.

This is Montana, Next? Wyoming, Idaho... Guarantee you, it's in progress or has not been noted as directly tied to their (or a counterpart) crime operation.
They know the U.S. Government / State Government - and sovereign Tribal "nations", will maintain a muddied enforcement for a hell of a long time. It will take ages!
During this time frame, they will break tribal backs w/o care and fentanyl / meth will roll into towns and cities as dealers know no borders when it comes to $.

Tribal students may be ordered to enter Montana schools and universities - at threat of their family's lives if they don't sell their fentanyl/meth and bring home the $.
They will flourish the select youth's and relative's tribal family on the Res with better homes and cars if they do the Cartel good and if not...

This is a no joke Cartel specifically focused on Montana tribal reservations to increase demand for their supplied fentanyl and meth.

Good points. I wish tribal leaders could or would keep the cartel out but yeah, it’s probably already underway

 

[JustinsDad]

Make drugs legal they say:


Portland: Declare state of emergency

This is why I favor legalization. Making it illegal does not curb the abundance of drugs. It only diverts it from legit companies to thugs who will lace it with fentanyl and other deadly fillers. Except weed, drugs are illegal where I live and I could get any drug I want in about 15 minutes down on the Avenue. I just choose not to but everybody knows it’s here. If it was legal like weed and alcohol then hiding on a reservation wouldn’t really serve any purpose that I can figure.

 

[Northwoods]

I haven’t read all the comments and opinions but there is a staggering amount of narco coming into our country every day. The cartels have smart people. It’s being manifested in all kinds of creative ways such as mixed with paint and other liquids. Liquid meth and liquid fentanyl are dangerous for those trying to stop it. Legalizing MJ has only strengthened the cartels.

 

[cedahm]

Sorry, going to flat out disagree with you there. I lived in Pueblo, CO when they legalized it, greenhouses and marijuana 'farms' started to pop up all over the place. Since it was a very arid environment the growers had to lean heavily on fertilizers and extra watering, plus imported topsoil. Then the growers got to experience capitalism and competition with the I-25 pipeline from Mexico going right through town, many of them went out of business because they didn't understand the business. Most (if not all, I didn't see any still growing last time I was down there) of the outdoor farms are just dustbowls now after only a few years, no native plants recovered, no reclamation, just poisoned dirt where people who didn't know how to farm decided to build farms.

I worked in the growing equipment supply space for some time. Hydro focused, but lots of spillover to outdoor growing. Most of Colorado is unprofitable for outdoor growing, high aridity places like Pueblo even moreso. Probably got a quick Buck in 2013/14, because it was literally the Wild West and retailers would buy anything they could. But not at all sustainable.

I think the bolded part above is the key message - most of the newly legal growers don’t know what they’re doing. Scalable indoor grows are where profit is bred. And with the general industry in a depressed state (oversupply, mainly) for years on top of the Federal legal challenges simply to operate a cannabis or cannabis-adjacent business, it is still difficult to succeed in the legal cannabis market. Even more so on the Supply side.

 

[JustinsDad]

Legalizing MJ has only strengthened the cartels.

With total respect I question how you came to this conclusion. Where I am nobody buys weed from any dealer anymore. They either grow it or buy it from a dispensary. The dispensaries buy it from legal growers. I don’t see how this could strengthen the cartel

 

[Nick87]

With total respect I question how you came to this conclusion. Where I am nobody buys weed from any dealer anymore. They either grow it or buy it from a dispensary. The dispensaries buy it from legal growers. I don’t see how this could strengthen the cartel

Legal here amd I don't think a single person I know buys from a dispensery. They all say why woukd I pay that much when I can buy it cheaper from the same guy I've always bought from. Ymmv

 

[SAJ-99]

Legal here amd I don't think a single person I know buys from a dispensery. They all say why woukd I pay that much when I can buy it cheaper from the same guy I've always bought from. Ymmv

Because it may be laced with fentanyl?

 

[Nick87]

Because it may be laced with fentanyl?

Don't ask me I don't buy it lol. Thats just what I've been told so take that for what it's worth.

 

[CRJR45]

Legal here amd I don't think a single person I know buys from a dispensery. They all say why woukd I pay that much when I can buy it cheaper from the same guy I've always bought from. Ymmv

Not true in my experience . As a medical marijuana provider I had people lining up at my door , paying in advance , because they wanted the best product they could get , mine . And they were paying top dollar .
Good product sells itself , nobody wants cheap weed , IMO .

 

[SAJ-99]

Don't ask me I don't buy it lol. Thats just what I've been told so take that for what it's worth.

Same reason I don’t buy my liquor from some rando on the street- might be antifreeze. I kind of assume quality control is the upside to taxes and regulation. PITA sure, but even if I buy meat from a store I know they followed some basic protocols to limit my chance of dying from dinner.

 

[Nick87]

Same reason I don’t buy my liquor from some rando on the street- might be antifreeze. I kind of assume quality control is the upside to taxes and regulation. PITA sure, but even if I buy meat from a store I know they followed some basic protocols to limit my chance of dying from dinner.

Like I said I have no idea. For all I know they're buying it from somebody who grows it around here. You know, like buying your meat from a farmers market instead of the store . I really don't care one way or the other where they buy it.

 

[CRJR45]

Like I said I have no idea. For all I know they're buying it from somebody who grows it around here. You know, like buying your meat from a farmers market instead of the store . I really don't care one way or the other where they buy it.

So , ... you're voicing an opinion on the internet about something you know nothing about ?
Come On Man !

 

[Nick87]

So , ... you're voicing an opinion on the internet about something you know nothing about ?
Come On Man !

Welcome to the internet. I said I have no idea why they buy it from someplace other than a dispensery. Other than they say it's cheaper.

 

[David658]

Like I said I have no idea. For all I know they're buying it from somebody who grows it around here. You know, like buying your meat from a farmers market instead of the store . I really don't care one way or the other where they buy it.

Well, here in NM growing it for personal use is legal. You can legally grow a lot. And do you think the police spend any time monitoring what people grow in their yards? No bang for that buck.

Now, here we have the shops and commercial growers whining to the State, to legislate how many and who can sell the stuff. Of course in hopes that they will be granted license to continue, but not the competition.

If it is regulated (including outlawed) there will be a black market. And since the states that have legalized MJ have determined that there simply has to be a windfall of tax revenue, they guarantee that "legal" product is expensive, far more expensive than a home grower or cartel grower that doesn't charge sales tax nor pay the grower/producer/special pot taxes.

We want easy, cosmic solutions to the problems, which I guess is partly based on the fact that government is no good at incremental solutions or trade-offs. I lean toward legalization, simply because what we are doing now does not work. But legalization means we have to deal with a raft of problems, all the ripples - homelessness, real rehab (which can take months of incarceration to even start to work), and some baseline number of deaths every year just like we do with alcohol.

David
NM