Montana contemplates shooting more cows, less bulls

[Addicting]

If all the elk are on Private and it’s so bad, why has MT sold all its NR licenses the last two years after a price increase and had a waiting list for turned in tags? Asking for a friend....

 

[timmy]

If all the elk are on Private and it’s so bad, why has MT sold all its NR licenses the last two years after a price increase and had a waiting list for turned in tags? Asking for a friend....

Western states can’t keep up with the demand of western hunting. People have money and are happy just to come here. The demand is there, the elk may or may not be.

 

[Killergaurd]

Seems simple manage elk numbers for the public. If ranchers and farmers are so concerned about elk on there land they can do block management. No extended seasons or shoulder hunts. Or iam I not being logical.

 

[Killergaurd]

I dont know. Pisses me off. How many thousands or millions of Moo cows live off of public lands at a very low cost. Seems like a conflict of interest to me. Maybe all public lands should only be for wildlife.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Seems simple ...

It does seem simple ... but it's far from. FWP has many diverse pressures ... and then there's the looney legislature!

 

[Killergaurd]

I dont know. I grew up hunting in the 90's. A time when most ranches if not all allowed hunting. Seems like elk conflict with private coincided with ranches not allowing hunting.

 

[mtmuley]

If all the elk are on Private and it’s so bad, why has MT sold all its NR licenses the last two years after a price increase and had a waiting list for turned in tags? Asking for a friend....

Bliss.. You know the rest. mtmuley

 

[Bulldog0156]

Seems simple manage elk numbers for the public. If ranchers and farmers are so concerned about elk on there land they can do block management. No extended seasons or shoulder hunts. Or iam I not being logical.

Too logical. There are too many dirty hands in the cookie jar when it comes to wildlife management here.

 

[Addicting]

Bliss.. You know the rest. mtmuley

Nope, not at all. I posted earlier in this thread about ID’s Director and money. To think that MT Director isn’t dealing with the same issues and trying to come to the best decision on how to approach complex problems with the commission, funding, ranchers, and the public seems far fetched. I feel confident that anyone who sat down with her to have a conversation would realize that it’s a job most of us wouldn’t want. But hey, we are on the Internet so it’s ok to complain about whatever we want while we sit comfortably behind our keyboards.

 

[Magnum Sherpa]

I was watching the local news here in Missoula this evening and they said this proposal has been “shot down.”

 

[Gerald Martin]

They haven't been part of the solution ever...only the problem. The idiotic FWP for decades didn't limit cow permits to private land only, but pounded the living hell out of the elk on public land.

Then, every biologist in Montana wanders around the State, many that caused this problem, with a dumb/confused look on their face wondering how they're going to "fix" it. They have NO options because they did the worse thing they ever could have...longer seasons, more cow permits, more and more and more pressure on public lands. You don't fix an elk overpopulation problem by concentrating elk harvest on primarily the public land, while creating nice sanctuaries on the private. Has never worked, isn't working now, and never will work.

Fire up the helicopter and get on with the slaughter...bulls first.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head. Not sure I want to see the helicopter slaughter part of it, though. Putting more pressure on elk that would use public lands if not hammered for such a long time that it drives them to private is not the answer.

I will say that in region 1, wolves are also a factor in pushing elk to private and ensuring they stay there. We are not over objective in our units and our bull numbers have been dropping for years. Trying to keep the a stable to declining wolf population has proven difficult. Trying to get hunters in Sanders Co. to understand that wolves are only part of the problem and we can't keep shooting the same number of elk in a declining herd with two hard winters in a row is almost impossible.

 

[PrairieHunter]

If your goal is a legal bull elk, or even a cow on a general license, public land in MT likely ranks at the bottom of the barrel in the west.

The crazy thing is the combo tags were not selling out after the last price increase and now they area again. Time to raise prices even if the hunting has gone downhill.

 

[BuzzH]

The crazy thing is the combo tags were not selling out after the last price increase and now they area again. Time to raise prices even if the hunting has gone downhill.

Many just want the "Montana experience"...some think they can beat the crap odds of killing an elk, and some may be hunting on memories. I can tell you that the only reason I buy the NR Native deer combo every year is to hunt with my Dad, Brother, and Nephews...if they didn't live there, I wouldn't buy even that. I haven't bought an elk tag there in several years and have no intentions of buying another until the MTFWP quits treating elk like noxious weeds.

 

[tjones]

As for wolves being part of the problem, I tend to agree. About 10 years ago a local rancher told me that it had become impossible to run the elk out of his fields and up in to the timber. He said that you could go out and haze them out of the fields and they would be back in an hour. He has ranched there for many years and never experienced anything like it. He said that you could not force them to live up on the mountain.

This is country that has basically no hunting pressure on the usfs behind it, because of lack of access.

How do the wolves know the difference between public and private?

 

[onpoint]

Wolves roaming allover the open country in the Madison Valley.
Corral Creek Ranch, Carroll Bros. Ranch, Sun Ranch, etc. A few elk on those ranches, too.
Must just be the Madison wolves.
Last three elk I killed, right there - Bear Cr., Cedar Cr., east bank of the Madison River. All in last few years.
Not sayin' things haven't changed, but.....

 

[The Hedgehog]

It definitely helps things balance out when the wolves are getting shot at.

 

[tjones]

They know the difference between timber and open.

Not to be argumentative but don’t wolves kill cattle in the open? I have heard this theory for 20 years or more and it just doesn’t add up. Also they do a whole lot of killing in the dark. Timber or open doesn’t matter at 1:00 in the morning. Also if wolves are patrolling the tree line wouldn’t that be then an easy place to find and kill wolves.

Headed down a rabbit hole here, back to topic on hand. Killing cows.

 

[timmy]

Many just want the "Montana experience"...some think they can beat the crap odds of killing an elk, and some may be hunting on memories. I can tell you that the only reason I buy the NR Native deer combo every year is to hunt with my Dad, Brother, and Nephews...if they didn't live there, I wouldn't buy even that. I haven't bought an elk tag there in several years and have no intentions of buying another until the MTFWP quits treating elk like noxious weeds.

Timber carp

 

[The Hedgehog]

No one said that wolves don't go into open country. Wolves change the way that elk use the land. I believe that bulls tend to still use timbered country more than the cows because they will die if they stay with the cows.

I agree with this somewhat. From what I’ve seen - wolves often prefer to hunt elk where numbers are in onesey twosey groups (adult bulls) in the rough country, as opposed to open gentler country with many, many more elk.

 

[The Hedgehog]

And they’ll hunt the shit outta the onesey twosey elk until there’s the zerosey nonesey groups. Then the wolves will look elsewhere. Just from my own observations.