Meth Elk

[JoseCuervo]

This is almost a useless one sided argument...

BHR gives a well detailed description and asks good questions in an area he lives in and around...

Buzz gives nothing but emotional outbursts...

Not understanding how this country actually functions, what drives its economy, and not living any where near the issue at hand, leaves Buzz at a huge disadvantage...

The Cheese is so stupid to think this is a one-sided argument, when he has one of the participants on IGNORE.

Kind of shows how The Cheese operates in the world, ignoring facts and opinions that would make him have to think and learn. Yeppers, nobody ever wasted an edjumacation on the Cheese....

 

[BigHornRam]

Buzz,

Usually when you buy land in large acreage amounts, you get a discount. A 20 acre sub-divided piece goes for more per acre than a 160 acre piece. A 160 acre piece, usually goes for more per acre than a similar 3000 acre piece. 300,000 plus acres of stump farm in one nice deal should get heck of a discount, don't you think?

Since Max was so lax in negotiating with YOUR public dollar, maybe you ought to purchase this piece http://www.landwatch.com/Missoula-County-Montana-LAND-for-sale/pid/10173 and save it from developement. They've even lowered the price on it since the legacy project went through. Shoot them an offer. It has a lot of 30-50 year old ponderosa, with a few good size harvestable larch and fir. Lot of real nice whitetail bucks on it last fall also. It has some real nice views of the $1800 an acre, Bonner Mountain property as well.

Come on, step up to the plate and save it Buzz.

 

[Oak]

Dang, land is friggin' cheap up there...

$250k down here will buy you 50 acres of sagebrush, with an occasional pinyon or juniper.

 

[BuzzH]

BHR,

For the last time. Gaining 315,000 acres of accessible land was a good deal for the taxpayer, period.

You're comparing water skippers and elephants...

Have you even bothered looking at the land consolidation this project accomplished?

Your ignorance of the difficulties involved with managing checkerboard lands is laughable. The fact that entire drainages, watersheds, etc. are now able to be managed instead of on a section by section basis is well worth the extra couple bucks an acre.

The land you're listing is laughable...it DOES nothing to consolidate public ownership, nothing to consolidate and/or provide public access, nothing to enhance ECO-SYSTEM management, etc.

Pull your head out BHR...think long-term and think of more than just a one-time shot of money that PC made. Think of what that land will provide in the future. Think of the money saved by consolidating management.

Like I've already stated...the problem you have is that you cant think about and look into the future value of what the legacy project WILL provide.

WAKE UP!

 

[JoseCuervo]

BigWhore,

Do you even know the financial terms that Plum Creek got? A tax credit is much different than CASH. What were the terms of the tax credit???

You might want to do some of that learning on your own, before Buzz continues giving you an edjumacation.

 

[BigHornRam]

Buzz,

The properties I linked to are adjacent to public lands and legacy lands in question. All are on the market right now (currently with very little interest to buy) at prices LOWER than the average per acre price of the legacy project. With better negotiations they could have been purchased in this deal as well.

Get it?

 

[BuzzH]

BHR,

When the initial deal was struck...was the real-estate market in better or worse shape than it is right now?

Yeah, thats what I thought.

Also, 157 acres does next to nothing to consolidate management or enhance the management of an ecosytem on a watershed sized scale...but...315,000 acres DOES.

Get it?

 

[BigHornRam]

When the initial deal was struck...was the real-estate market in better or worse shape than it is right now?

It was tanking then.....I bought my piece prior to the deal being struck for $1240 per acre. It started out being listed at double that. I wouldn't trade it straight up for the adjacent 157 acre piece at $1600 an acre though.

Shoot PC a low offer on 157 acre piece and save it Buzz. Maybe they'll bite?

 

[BigHornRam]

BigWhore,

Do you even know the financial terms that Plum Creek got? A tax credit is much different than CASH. What were the terms of the tax credit???

You might want to do some of that learning on your own, before Buzz continues giving you an edjumacation.

First phase of ‘Legacy' project complete
By MICHAEL JAMISON of the Missoulian



KALISPELL - Nearly 130,000 acres of Plum Creek Timber Co. land changed hands Thursday, the first in what eventually will be the largest conservation land purchase in United States history.

Located west of Missoula - in the Fish Creek area of Mineral County - and east of Missoula - in the Potomac Valley - the logged-over forest lands were purchased with $150 million supplied by the Nature Conservancy and the Trust for Public Land.

The money, said TPL regional director Eric Love, came from a combination of foundation giving, private philanthropy, and a loan from the Nature Conservancy.


Eventually, the groups hope to repay that loan, perhaps with state money. Both the Montana departments of Natural Resources and Conservation and Fish, Wildlife and Parks have expressed interest in some of the forestland, Love said.

The purchase includes more than 53,000 acres west of Missoula and some 76,000 acres east of town, including riparian areas, upland forests and grazing pasture. Chris Bryant, of the Nature Conservancy, called the Fish Creek area “one of the least developed valleys in western Montana.”

In fact, a primary reason for negotiating the sale is ongoing concern regarding residential development, as the timber company continues to sell forestland for homesites. Plum Creek now has its own real estate development division, and has been organized as a real estate investment trust since 1999.

Local communities have worried the transition from timber to neighborhoods could cut off public forest access, reduce recreational opportunities, increase taxpayer costs of providing urban services, and undermine the state's wood products industry.

Thursday's sale is the first of three “Montana Legacy” phases, which eventually seek to trade out 310,000 Plum Creek acres for $500 million. About half of the purchase price is expected to be supplied by federal taxpayers, although no public dollars have been invested so far.

The first taxpayer money will be spent next year, Love said, to purchase 112,000 acres primarily in the Swan Valley and the Highway 12 corridor west of Lolo. The final phase, set to close at the end of 2010, involves 70,000 acres spread between the Swan and the Evaro area north of Missoula.

Eventually, Love said, the forests will be turned over to state, federal and private land managers, with up to 111,000 acres potentially coming into Montana ownership. Love admits “there's definitely some restoration work that needs to be done” on the former logging lands[/B](could be one reason Buzz is so on board with this? future job?), but added the acres targeted are important not only for public recreation but also for habitat protection.

The purchase agreement allows for continued timber harvest by Plum Creek.

“This project will conserve these lands for Montana's future,” said Kat Imhoff, state director of the Nature Conservancy. “This effort is crucial for the preservation of timber harvesting, tourism and recreation - three important drivers of western Montana's economy.”

 

[BuzzH]

Thanks for providing proof of what I've been telling you all along.

 

[BigHornRam]

BHR,

Not worth a response....3,500 acres in lolo creek...BFD.

Not even in the same galaxy...but keep grasping...its all you got.

Then you read in the article.........

"112,000 acres primarily in the Swan Valley and the Highway 12 corridor west of Lolo".

Looks like my 3500 acre comp was not only a good one, but would also consolidate even more fragmented habitat. What about this line.......

"Love admits “there's definitely some restoration work that needs to be done” on the former logging lands (could be one reason Buzz is so on board with this? future job?)"

Any merit to the underlined question? Buy overvalued logged off land then spend even more taxpayer dollars restoring it? This is a good use of taxpayer dollars?

 

[ELKCHSR]

It's a proven fact that if a clear cut is left alone, it will come back healthier and more diverse than if man comes in and tries to "fix" it...

I think your right BH, it's job security for one of Buzz's minions...

 

[1_pointer]

It's a proven fact that if a clear cut is left alone, it will come back healthier and more diverse than if man comes in and tries to "fix" it...

Got a link to any sources?

 

[ELKCHSR]

Not for you...

1. You need to understand timber and their ecosystems first

2. I will take you to places where this practice has been done and you can either believe me or your lying eyes (I'm going to assume though, your going to let your mouth out run your brain when it comes to those you see as less competent)

3. With all your education and vast background in these topics, of all people should know that mono crops don't create diversity or better health of any thing (unless it's a short lived crop (2 years or less))

4. Your collage educated, do your own research

5. ???Need I keep going???

 

[The Hedgehog]

speaking of meth..

4. Your collage educated, do your own research

You're college educated. Do your own research.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste - but meth probably is a good choice when crouched in a self-dug ground pit, or just before sodomizing dead cow elk.

 

[MattK]

GH- Why put down meth addicts...their drug addicted minds work a lot better than that.

 

[ELKCHSR]

???

Kurt...

Some times your a very odd fellow grasping at empty or old worn out straws...

Find some thing new...

 

[The Hedgehog]

this isn't worn out..

 

[The Hedgehog]

or this..

 

[The Hedgehog]

who's odd?