Medical French Revolution

[Marshian]

People are reaching a breaking point?

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/12/05/deny-defend-depose-unitedhealthcare-ceo-shooting-shell-casing-thompson.html

 

[BigHornRam]

There are a few activists out there that would like to start a French Revolution. I think this asshole is one of them.

 

[Irrelevant]

It's hard to support the current healthcare system. But it's impossible to justify killing someone over it.

 

[Marshian]

Im not by any means advocating murder, but its not just patients who are getting very frustrated by insurance companies' blockades. This very recent press release essentially means I, an anesthesiologist, should work for free if the surgery goes long, which is out of my control. Would we expect the nurses or surgery techs to work for free as well? Medicine is not a factory that pumps out widgets. Treating it as such and placing profits over people will have some dire consequences. Both to the patient and perhaps elsewhere too.

Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield Won’t Pay for the Complete Duration of Anesthesia for Patients’ Surgical Procedures

In an unprecedented move, Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield plans representing Connecticut, New York and Missouri have unilaterally declared it will no longer pay for anesthesia care if the surgery or procedure goes beyond an arbitrary time limit, regardless of how long the surgical procedure takes...

www.asahq.org

 

[Irrelevant]

I was randomly thinking about healthcare and insurance companies while putting in my mileage on the treadmill this morning. I vote that all insurance companies must be non-profit.

 

[Schaaf]

Horrible situation and I feel the public’s response to his murder should provoke some introspective thoughts from politicians and healthcare executives but I’ve got my doubts. No one is the judge of who deserves to live or die, that’s the job of the AI algorithm the insurance company designed to maximize profits on people’s health.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Im not by any means advocating murder, but its not just patients who are getting very frustrated by insurance companies' blockades. This very recent press release essentially means I, an anesthesiologist, should work for free if the surgery goes long, which is out of my control. Would we expect the nurses or surgery techs to work for free as well? Medicine is not a factory that pumps out widgets. Treating it as such and placing profits over people will have some dire consequences. Both to the patient and perhaps elsewhere too.

Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield Won’t Pay for the Complete Duration of Anesthesia for Patients’ Surgical Procedures

In an unprecedented move, Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield plans representing Connecticut, New York and Missouri have unilaterally declared it will no longer pay for anesthesia care if the surgery or procedure goes beyond an arbitrary time limit, regardless of how long the surgical procedure takes...

www.asahq.org

I see your point. As a separate thought - what's to stop policies that maximize the time a provider spends with the patient?

If I'm a profit driven hospital- I want to bill every hour I can to the insurance - independent of it being medically necessary.

 

[The_Jim]

@Marshian I don't think anyone should work for free but when our towns hospital has enough extra money to donate a $34 million field house to our YMCA the system is broken. Insurance companies are a big part of that, but the providers aren't innocent either.

Columbus Fieldhouse | Columbus Community Hospital

www.columbushosp.org

 

[BigHornRam]

Im not by any means advocating murder, but its not just patients who are getting very frustrated by insurance companies' blockades. This very recent press release essentially means I, an anesthesiologist, should work for free if the surgery goes long, which is out of my control. Would we expect the nurses or surgery techs to work for free as well? Medicine is not a factory that pumps out widgets. Treating it as such and placing profits over people will have some dire consequences. Both to the patient and perhaps elsewhere too.

Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield Won’t Pay for the Complete Duration of Anesthesia for Patients’ Surgical Procedures

In an unprecedented move, Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield plans representing Connecticut, New York and Missouri have unilaterally declared it will no longer pay for anesthesia care if the surgery or procedure goes beyond an arbitrary time limit, regardless of how long the surgical procedure takes...

www.asahq.org

I get frustrated with healthcare and medical insurance. It's a flawed system. Today's society on average is also as unhealthy as I've ever seen. Until people start taking better care of themselves, not much will change.

Talking about a French Revolution is stupid. It will only benefit the communists and anarchist. Good luck with your healthcare in that scenario.

 

[TN2shot07]

@Marshian I don't think anyone should work for free but when our towns hospital has enough extra money to donate a $34 million field house to our YMCA the system is broken. Insurance companies are a big part of that, but the providers aren't innocent either.

Columbus Fieldhouse | Columbus Community Hospital

www.columbushosp.org

Non profit doesn’t mean that the companies don’t generate profit, it limits how it can be spent. Investing in your community is what you want from a non profit, how that investment is made people can argue about. You should check out the plaques in your local parks, probably quite a few donations made there too.

Insurance practices are largely based on Medicare, so as long as we allow politicians with no medical insight to take money from people whose companies stand to benefit the system will continue to largely suck for the users.

 

[Marshian]

I can only speak for the operating room, and in there, the surgeons are paid by the case so they do try and be efficient. And despite the cynicism of many, NOT because they are greedy. But for the rest of the staff, we have no control over that. In a similar vein, if a loved one gets admitted for a heart attack or pneumonia and the average length of stay is say two days, but they arent responding well to treatment, I suppose the floor staff and doctors just absorb that too? Apart from a few bad apples, I dont see how providers are all that complicit in this. Per the anesthesia article I linked, "In June 2024, Elevance Health, the corporate name for Anthem, reported a 24.12% increase in its year-over-year net income to $2.3 billion and a 24.29% increase in its year-over-year net profit margin."

Somehow many Americans have this odd idea that because medicine is a "calling", at the end of the day, its ok if providers get shafted a bit. Ive volunteered multiple times and am happy to do so, but in a country as wealthy as ours, saddling the provider with this is unacceptable. My thread title again is not an endorsement, but if you read the comments related to this story, clearly the system has touched a nerve with the public.

 

[SAJ-99]

I was randomly thinking about healthcare and insurance companies while putting in my mileage on the treadmill this morning. I vote that all insurance companies must be non-profit.

I lot of hospitals are non-profit. Even with the benefits that provides, it doesn't change their math.

Unfortunately, @Marshian, healthcare is now completely a volume business. The "it's a calling" mantra is mostly from older healthcare pros that worked under a different system. Today, Healthcare is a picture of typical corporate America with a business largely tied to government funding, and then private equity steps in...

 

[Forkyfinder]

@Forkyfinder and @The_Jim

I can only speak for the operating room, and in there, the surgeons are paid by the case so they do try and be efficient. And despite the cynicism of many, NOT because they are greedy. But for the rest of the staff, we have no control over that. In a similar vein, if a loved one gets admitted for a heart attack or pneumonia and the average length of stay is say two days, but they arent responding well to treatment, I suppose the floor staff and doctors just absorb that too? Apart from a few bad apples, I dont see how providers are all that complicit in this. Per the anesthesia article I linked, "In June 2024, Elevance Health, the corporate name for Anthem, reported a 24.12% increase in its year-over-year net income to $2.3 billion and a 24.29% increase in its year-over-year net profit margin."

Somehow many Americans have this odd idea that because medicine is a "calling", at the end of the day, its ok if providers get shafted a bit. Ive volunteered multiple times and am happy to do so, but in a country as wealthy as ours, saddling the provider with this is unacceptable.

Na - I don't think that at all. I can tell you are passionate about this issue and respect that you are a provider.

My quarrel is that this conundrum (scope, time spent, and complications) are all a part of business for anyone who sells their time. Medicine is the only industry I'm aware of where no meaningful price information can be provided prior to service. All of the issues in medicine with unknowns are true elsewhere except that typically no life is on the line in a live setting.

Are you under contract with the hospital? Or are you an employee? Are you salary? Or hourly?

 

[Irrelevant]

I have a helluva lot more faith in my doctor having a better moral compass with regard to time management vs need, compared to basically everyone in the health insurance industry.

 

[The_Jim]

@Marshian I've had a couple of issues with our local providers so I'm pretty calloused. I do realize providers have their hands tied because of the insurance companies networks - but when I ask for an itemized list and get charged $4/Motrin its pretty hard to convince me I'm not getting screwed.

 

[Nick87]

I have a helluva lot more faith in my doctor having a better moral compass with regard to time management vs need, compared to basically everyone in the health insurance industry.

I've lost faith in just about all of it over the last 6 months with my wife's health and about 6 different doctors.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Somehow many Americans have this odd idea that because medicine is a "calling", at the end of the day, its ok if providers get shafted a bit. Ive volunteered multiple times and am happy to do so, but in a country as wealthy as ours, saddling the provider with this is unacceptable. My thread title again is not an endorsement, but if you read the comments related to this story, clearly the system has touched a nerve with the public.

How much does an Anesthesiologist make?​

As of December 01, 2024, the average annual pay of Anesthesiologist in the United States is $438,200. While Salary.com is seeing that Anesthesiologist salary in the US can go up to $550,152 or down to $326,439, but most earn between $379,700 and $496,800. Salary.com shows the average base salary (core compensation), as well as the average total cash compensation for the job of Anesthesiologist in the United States.

 

[The_Jim]

How much does an Anesthesiologist make?​

As of December 01, 2024, the average annual pay of Anesthesiologist in the United States is $438,200. While Salary.com is seeing that Anesthesiologist salary in the US can go up to $550,152 or down to $326,439, but most earn between $379,700 and $496,800. Salary.com shows the average base salary (core compensation), as well as the average total cash compensation for the job of Anesthesiologist in the United States.

The problem isn't the salaries - if @Marshian puts me under for a surgery I want to wake back up. These folks have our lives in their hands and I want them to be the best and they should get paid well to do it.

The problem is for example when my dad had a lung infection last year, our companies insurance plan wouldn't pay $7000 for an MRI. They went back and forth for a couple hours and eventually after they got of the phone with Allied the person at the hospital they were working with said if they paid cash, the MRI could be done for $300. That's Bullshit.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Not at all. You should be proud of what you do and what you make. Its a difficult job and great compensation. Just dont see the shafting you referenced.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

The problem isn't the salaries - if @Marshian puts me under for a surgery I want to wake back up. These folks have our lives in their hands and I want them to be the best and they should get paid well to do it.

The problem is for example when my dad had a lung infection last year, our companies insurance plan wouldn't pay $7000 for an MRI. They went back and forth for a couple hours and eventually after they got of the phone with Allied the person at the hospital they were working with said if they paid cash, the MRI could be done for $300. That's Bullshit.

Part of the problem is most definelty the salaries. Insurance is also part of the problem. If you think insurance coverage is not correlated to provider compensation you are dreaming.