Looking for shoulder season help in region 4

[8andcounting]

First of all happy new year to all . Wondering if anyone could with region 4 shoulder season a group of us still have 004-00 cow tags and would be willing to pay trespass fee. Any ideas ? Suggestions ? Thanks

 

[406LIFE]

Its a long shot that I have no idea if there is any room, but the TNC properties and the TRMR.

 

[MTGomer]

willing to pay trespass fee. Any ideas ? Suggestions ?

Yeah, stay in North Dakota.

 

[8andcounting]

Yeah, stay in North Dakota.

Ok I won't buy high price NR tags and spend $ in montana anymore - then you'll complain cuz resident prices go up

 

[TheJason]

Ok I won't buy high price NR tags and spend $ in montana anymore - then you'll complain cuz resident prices go up

You do realize trespass fees are completely contrary to the intent of shoulder seasons, right? And by paying trespass fees you are further enabling the commercialization of hunting?

 

[noharleyyet]

Good grief fellas....

 

[BuzzH]

Good grief fellas....

The only good grief should be pointed at the MTFWP and the bullchit they peddled to get shoulder seasons established.

One of my unfortunate character flaws is having a good memory. We were all assured that these shoulder seasons were not a way for outfitters/landowners to further profit via trespass fees, guided hunts and the like. Many, myself included, called this from the get-go.

Another time I get to say, "I told you so"...

What a joke.

 

[TheJason]

We were all assured that these shoulder seasons were not a way for outfitters/landowners to further profit via trespass fees, guided hunts and the like.

Yep. And kind of like the contentiousness of mule deer B tags, I don’t fault people for using the tags made available to them, or paying trespass fee for a shoulder hunt made available to them. However, they also need to understand why some don’t greet them with much enthusiasm over it.

 

[noharleyyet]

Sorry gents but hectoring NR’s for doing what your officials sanction is low fruit.

 

[8andcounting]

I just looking for a fricking place to shoot some elk in region 4. Trespass fee be last resort . But I called Fwp and they were no help for lining up private land so I dunno I'm frustrated

 

[Ben Lamb]

While I share the frustration that my Treasure state brothers (And Buzz) have with shoulder seasons and anyone who looks to profit from what is supposed to be a management hunt, I would offer the following:

http://fwp.mt.gov/hunting/seasons/elkShoulder/

Call the R4 person listed here and they can help you find a place to hunt. I would ask that you refrain from paying for access, as that does go against the grain and intent of these management hunts, and if people start profiting off of them rather than act as community partners, we end up in really bad spaces politically and on the policy side. It may seem petty, but we have serious issues with elk management in MT and shoulder seasons, while well intention-ed, are not producing the kinds of results that were hoped for, both in terms of landowner access and herd management. However, since you did get the tag, FWP is your best bet to help you find a ranch that will let you on for free and offer you a good chance to harvest a cow.

 

[onpoint]

These "shoulder seasons" are an interesting study in hunter sociology.
When originally asked to comment on the concept - overwhelming numbers of negative public comments submitted.
In the face of those comments, the seasons begin in earnest.
The public interest (R as well as, actually more than, NR) and participation then about equals the pre-"hunt" opposition. Folks chomping at the bit to shoot an easy cow (or 2) and get home in time to watch the football game on the idiot box.
More than just one broken cog in the wheel, in my worthless opinion.......

 

[cur dog]

Yeah, stay in North Dakota.

Hangover today?

 

[Badlandcat]

In northern part region 4, most of the shoulder hunts are for friends and family only. There is some open ranches around WSS, but you have to be there the morning the Elk cross the property. I'm sure if you call a few outfitters they would take you out for a fee. For the record I am against the shoulder season.

 

[Stretcher_Jockey]

The only good grief should be pointed at the MTFWP and the bullchit they peddled to get shoulder seasons established.

One of my unfortunate character flaws is having a good memory. We were all assured that these shoulder seasons were not a way for outfitters/landowners to further profit via trespass fees, guided hunts and the like. Many, myself included, called this from the get-go.

Another time I get to say, "I told you so"...

What a joke.

Buzz, I always appreciate your your posts and the bluntness you exhibit. Folks tip toeing around issues gets frustrating. As someone in the East who’s not really able to follow these issues as closely as you guys, what are the main issues with the shoulder seasons in MT? I see so many posts condemning them but I don’t recall seeing any that go into much detail as to what the issues with them are. I’m not arguing they aren’t a bad thing as I don’t know enough about them to do so. Just curious about the whole subject.

 

[sneakypete]

I can’t believe it, a guy didn’t fill his tag and he would like to shoot a cow to fill his freezer! Ragging on a guy who wants to go hunting isn’t the reason I follow this forum! This guy isn’t asking for your honey hole, just some info. I believe the Highwoods are part of region 4’s shoulder season. Good luck I hope you get out and hunt!

 

[8andcounting]

All I want is to get my dad and I on some elk . I'll go anywhere in region 4 to make it happen might call a few outfitters although I'd rather not

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, I always appreciate your your posts and the bluntness you exhibit. Folks tip toeing around issues gets frustrating. As someone in the East who’s not really able to follow these issues as closely as you guys, what are the main issues with the shoulder seasons in MT? I see so many posts condemning them but I don’t recall seeing any that go into much detail as to what the issues with them are. I’m not arguing they aren’t a bad thing as I don’t know enough about them to do so. Just curious about the whole subject.

Rather than retype it all...this post by Bigfin is spot on:

A friend and I were talking the other day about this stuff. He opined that if Montana was down to 3 remaining elk, there would be 3,000 hunters willing to apply for tags to kill them. Not sure if that would be the case, but so often, we as hunters can be a huge contributor to the problems we complain about. Look at how many people were happy to shoot one of the 2,200 pregnant cow elk in Gardiner during the huge decline in the Northern Herd. And most of those same people proclaimed the wolves eat all the elk; all 2,200 cows and their would-have-been calves.

My prediction, if shoulder seasons are expanded, is:

1. We will kill a lot of elk in January that spend most of September and October on public lands.

2. Bull to cow ratios will increase for a couple years, due to a bunch of cows being shot in January, allowing the bull to cow ratios to artificially improve. Some will proclaim this as a success and use it to justify the decision.

3. Starting in three years total bull numbers will start falling off the table due to half of the fetuses in those cows killed being bulls.

4. Hunter success in general seasons will go down substantially as fewer bulls are recruited to the population.

5. Elk numbers on inaccessible private land will generally be about the same and they will still get counted, incorrectly under the EMP, in the FWP objectives.

6. Hunters will then be even more pissed at the private landowners who provided some sort of sanctuary that kept even more elk from getting killed. These hunters will say landowners are "harboring" all the elk; elk that don't want to get shot to hell and realize where the safe zones are.

7. Hunters who shot the crap out of cow elk and now cannot find a bull will blame the wolves.

Wish it was different, but I am confident enough in what will happen under extended seasons that I am willing to put it in print right now so it can be held against me in five years. We have seen it happen many times in other places in the state; Gardiner, Upper Madison, Unit 410.

When we extended the general season in 2008, I still had a tag. I refused to go out and hunt that extended season as my personal protest against what I thought was a dumb idea. I know a lot of people who did, and that is up to them, not me. I refuse to participate in these shoulder seasons as my form of protest against them. I know some will, and I am fine with that; it is their tag and their decision. I would encourage hunters to at least think about the impact of participating in these hunts, while wanting better science-based management. Probably over simplification on my part, but letting yourself be used as an agent in the process makes it pretty hard to change the process. Here on HT, I suspect I am preaching to the choir.

I do know that it will be hard for me to listen to anyone blaming wolves in those units that are part of shoulder seasons now or in the future. I will have to just walk away when such comments are made, for fear of a long string of expletives coming from my mouth that I might later regret. The wolves in the case of shoulder seasons are driving pickup trucks and carrying center fire rifles.

 

[belly-deep]

But I called Fwp and they were no help for lining up private land so I dunno I'm frustrated

Yeah no shit. You already opened your wallet for them, so they have no use for you anymore.

 

[BuzzH]

Here you go...my oh my, who would have ever guessed?

https://onyourownadventures.com/hun...r-seasons-for-sale&highlight=shoulder+seasons