Looking for shoulder season help in region 4

[Ben Lamb]

There's no chance at an initiative to get rid of shoulder seasons. Way too many would see it as an attack on hunting opportunity as well as landowners. The EMP needs to be updated using real numbers based on carrying capacity not social science

This, and we need to be extremely careful when we seek to remove authority of the Commission to manage wildlife. While the issue remains divisive and politically motivated, we can't give up our core beliefs in favor of fast fixes.

And David's letter is spot on. We need a new EMP, and we need to think more creatively including even looking at altering season structure. That won't be popular at all, but MT is far behind the curve when it comes to actual management of the resource.

 

[BuzzH]

Maybe Montana Sportsmen/women would be more supportive of the commission and commission authority if they would exercise said authority and quit authorizing a lot of the crap the Department recommends.

Would probably slow down those that run to the legislature when the commission fails to act.

 

[BRI]

It's already been said before numerous times but needs to be said again, IMO. I feel the available and accessible elk are the ones being over harvested or pushed to inaccessible places, while the inaccessible herds continue to grow. And I really wonder what happens when the available and accessible elk get to such a ridiculously low number, what's the next step?

I also feel like when a landowner says there are too many elk, they're immediately listened to and believed and actions taken. Yet when hunters say there's not enough accessible elk, we're told, "They're out there, you just must not be seeing them" and don't feel listened to.

 

[Nameless Range]

It's already been said before numerous times but needs to be said again, IMO. I feel the available and accessible elk are the ones being over harvested, while the inaccessible herds continue to grow. And I really wonder what happens when the available and accessible get to such a ridiculously low number, what's the next step?

I also feel like when a landowner says there are too many elk, they're immediately listened to and believed and actions taken. Yet when hunters say there's not enough accessible elk, we're told, "They're out there, you just must not be seeing them" and don't feel listened to.

Well said.


If we want a new EMP, what would be the most effective way to make our voices heard?

 

[el unit]

Thanks for the link, Sytes. We sent our input/comments.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Maybe Montana Sportsmen/women would be more supportive of the commission and commission authority if they would exercise said authority and quit authorizing a lot of the crap the Department recommends.

Would probably slow down those that run to the legislature when the commission fails to act.

When the commission went to the bundled archery permits, we had three sessions of bills to eliminate them.

People will go the Legislature regardless of the issue or the cause with their grievances or because they didn't get the outcome they liked. I don't care if it's my team or someone elses - having a legislature set seasons in statute and remove commission authority is a bad idea.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Well said.


If we want a new EMP, what would be the most effective way to make our voices heard?

Make the request to the commission, get groups to support a new EMP and have them push as well. It's got to come from the ground up.

 

[tjones]

Make the request to the commission, get groups to support a new EMP and have them push as well. It's got to come from the ground up.

This has been going on for years. Won't happen and was told as much.

Given the current makeup of the wildlife division I'm not sure I want them to do one.

 

[BuzzH]

When the commission went to the bundled archery permits, we had three sessions of bills to eliminate them.

People will go the Legislature regardless of the issue or the cause with their grievances or because they didn't get the outcome they liked. I don't care if it's my team or someone elses - having a legislature set seasons in statute and remove commission authority is a bad idea.

Right Ben, the commission and Department have crapped on the Sportsmen in Montana how many times? On how many issues?

The Department asks for public comments on things like elk b-tags, a vast, vast majority of responses, both to the Survey Monkey poll and via public comment at the meetings opposed them. Guess what, the commission and the Department told the Sportsmen to go $#%$ themselves and implemented them anyway. Same exact thing with the shoulder seasons...the commission absolutely dropped the ball by approving the 44 units for shoulder seasons, before the data from the initial shoulder seasons on the "pilot" program were even recognized.

If you think that Sportsmen are going to back the commission, it has to be a 2 way street. The commission must have the back of sportsmen when the department and legislature both decide what's best for us.

We've been through this before...and quite frankly, after having dealt with the MTFWP, Legislature, and commission, I'm not really too sure I want any of them having too much authority. Seems all of them have forgotten who, and what, they work for and seem to be real comfortable putting the needs of their departments, business donors, and landowner buddies above the wildlife they are mandated to manage.

...and you wonder why some don't have a warm fuzzy about the commission doing the right thing? Action and inaction by the commission has consequences to not only wildlife, but their relationship with Sportsmen.

Watch what happens after this latest round of "public comments" on shoulder seasons is received from the department and how many changes are made to address the concerns many have had with shoulder seasons from the start. See what changes the department recommends and how quickly the commission does exactly what the department recommends...and how little either care about our comments.

Find that rope...we'll all be pissing up it again.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Again,

When you mess w/the ability of a commission, even one you don't like, you undermine over 100 years of wildlife management.

Just because something is currently broken, doesn't mean to throw it away. Commission authority is a much larger issue than how FWP responds to comments (legally, it's a mess thanks to deregulating MEPA in the name of stopping "environmental extremists") or a broken elk management system.

There are larger issues here than just shooting every last cow in Montana.

 

[BuzzH]

Ben,

I agree, but lets not give the Department or the Commission a pass on their lack of giving a chit about sportsmen or wildlife...because they don't act in the best interest of either when its not convenient. I think its also fair that someone better start giving a chit about wildlife very soon, or who has what authority, and our 100 years of wildlife management wont matter.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Ben,

I agree, but lets not give the Department or the Commission a pass on their lack of giving a chit about sportsmen or wildlife...because they don't act in the best interest of either when its not convenient. I think its also fair that someone better start giving a chit about wildlife very soon, or who has what authority, and our 100 years of wildlife management wont matter.

Absolutely agree. I just don't think it's wise to throw the baby out with the elk.

 

[BuzzH]

I wont apologize for not having much faith, in a Department or a Commission, that has continued to change absolutely nothing, while observed elk in one large area of the state has went from 1465 in 1989 to 3 in 2018...or another dropping from 800 to 8...tough to imagine a commission and department sitting on their ass, doing nothing with declines like that. But, hey, what do I know?

Again, not exactly getting a warm fuzzy for those charged with managing our wildlife and it should come as no shock that neither are getting respect from Sportsmen.

I expect Sportsmen and wildlife to be treated like doormats from the Legislature, I (used) to expect more from the Department and Commission.

 

[Spartan_Eric]

Realistically, if you want the Elk Management Plan updated the only way it is going to happen in the near term is through a ballot initiative. Also, last time when the MT FWP solicited comments on the elk shoulder season proposal in 2016 the comments were 9 to 1 against expanding the shoulder seasons to other Hunting Districts, so sadly while comments should still definitely be sent in to chronicle the hunting public’s interest and concerns, the ultimate outcome is already baked in the cake. Elk hunting in Montana is really the tale of two very different realities – private land and landlocked public land hunting is presently off the charts good in certain areas for both quantity and quality, and accessible public land/Block Management hunting often trends downward after the first few days of hunting pressure. As a landowner and also as a public land hunter I see both realities firsthand every year. This divide will likely become larger and larger each year that passes under the current “management” by the MT Fish and Wildlife Commission and MT FWP.