Judge is tired
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Ithaca 37
New member
LA, Please refer to my challenge posted 4/11 at 22:11. Can't you name any groups? Your buddy MD4M sure didn't do very well!
Once again you come on SI and make claims you can't back up. You have no credibility.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-13-2003 18:04: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-13-2003 18:04: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
IT, My question was "what does everyone think?" Not what you want to twist it into.
Everytime I have asked, esp YOU IT, IT twists it to fit his agenda.
So IT, you find that info(facts) about my claim that NPS had a bison slaughterhouse inside Yellowstone Park, its true, but you'll never even look into it b/c it would jeopardize everything you have ever believed..
Everytime I have asked, esp YOU IT, IT twists it to fit his agenda.
So IT, you find that info(facts) about my claim that NPS had a bison slaughterhouse inside Yellowstone Park, its true, but you'll never even look into it b/c it would jeopardize everything you have ever believed..
Ithaca 37
New member
Here's what you said: "They all beleive that logging should be banned on public lands, that motorized travel should be severely restricted or eliminated and that most public land should be allowed to revert to its "natural" state.
am I wrong on this? "
My question was whether you could name any groups (5 of them)that believe what you claim. You haven't.
It's easy for you and a few others to make your claims. When you get challenged to provide facts you back down.
And, LA, what makes you think it's my job to research and prove your claims? You make the claim, you provide the evidence to back it up. That's the way it works. Otherwise, you lose credibility. And you don't have much more to lose.
You say the NPS had a bison slaughterhouse in Yellowstone. "So IT, you find that info(facts) about my claim that NPS had a bison slaughterhouse inside Yellowstone Park, its true,..".
I never questioned that claim. You think I don't know Park history? I don't know all of it, but I know a little about the bison grazing program there around 1900.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-13-2003 22:56: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
am I wrong on this? "
My question was whether you could name any groups (5 of them)that believe what you claim. You haven't.
It's easy for you and a few others to make your claims. When you get challenged to provide facts you back down.
And, LA, what makes you think it's my job to research and prove your claims? You make the claim, you provide the evidence to back it up. That's the way it works. Otherwise, you lose credibility. And you don't have much more to lose.
You say the NPS had a bison slaughterhouse in Yellowstone. "So IT, you find that info(facts) about my claim that NPS had a bison slaughterhouse inside Yellowstone Park, its true,..".
I never questioned that claim. You think I don't know Park history? I don't know all of it, but I know a little about the bison grazing program there around 1900.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-13-2003 22:56: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
Muledeer4me
New member
Ithaca,my take is that you are such a treehugging libreal that you refuse to see where any of these radical org. are leading you.
All you have to do is start reading deeper into these org. and there web sites to see what the goal really is.
You call them good org. ,I call them wacko treehugger greenies that place humans below all else.
Lets not forget Ithaca that along with these MOST radical green groups you also gave us the link to
http://www.compassionatespirit.com/index.htm
so maybe it isnt me that people should question about there goal's?
It has been one long ride, but watching you show your true color's and come out of the closet has been fun ,whats next Ithaca the PETA SUPPORTER?
All you have to do is start reading deeper into these org. and there web sites to see what the goal really is.
You call them good org. ,I call them wacko treehugger greenies that place humans below all else.
Lets not forget Ithaca that along with these MOST radical green groups you also gave us the link to
http://www.compassionatespirit.com/index.htm
so maybe it isnt me that people should question about there goal's?
It has been one long ride, but watching you show your true color's and come out of the closet has been fun ,whats next Ithaca the PETA SUPPORTER?
Ithaca 37
New member
Well, your looney tune take is as far out of touch with reality as the rest of your paranoid theories!
Your post naming the groups you think want to ban all logging is a good example.
You've lost all credibility and you're as irrelevant as the Iraq's Republican Guard.
You've lost all credibility and you're as irrelevant as the Iraq's Republican Guard.
BigHornyRam
New member
Ithaca,
The problem is, is that few of these larger more powerful groups do not want to publically display their true agenda for fear of losing membership. The Ecology Center is a good example. Publically they proclaim that they are in favor of sensable logging practices. But they are a charter member of another more fringe extremist group that promotes the zero cut agenda. You don't have to nbe too bright to be able to conect the dots and figure out the Ecology Centers true agenda.
Paul
The problem is, is that few of these larger more powerful groups do not want to publically display their true agenda for fear of losing membership. The Ecology Center is a good example. Publically they proclaim that they are in favor of sensable logging practices. But they are a charter member of another more fringe extremist group that promotes the zero cut agenda. You don't have to nbe too bright to be able to conect the dots and figure out the Ecology Centers true agenda.
Paul
Ithaca 37
New member
Paul, If you look at ANY group, you can find some kind of connection to some other group who's agenda you don't agree with. That's the way life is. You're a FNAWS member, right? I know people in FNAWS who are influential members of the Sierra Club. You gonna quit FNAWS? One former FNAWS President is a dedicated Democrat who is considering running for political office.
You a member of the NRA? I know that some NRA members are in the Ku Klux Klan. You gonna quit the NRA?
You a member of the Blue Ribbon Coalition? Do you know they have connections to the Aryan Nations white supremist neo Nazi nuts?
Take a look at all the nutty fringe groups in the Wise Use Movement!
If you're gonna be paranoid about some obscure connection to some other group you'll never join or support any group.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-14-2003 12:41: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
You a member of the NRA? I know that some NRA members are in the Ku Klux Klan. You gonna quit the NRA?
You a member of the Blue Ribbon Coalition? Do you know they have connections to the Aryan Nations white supremist neo Nazi nuts?
Take a look at all the nutty fringe groups in the Wise Use Movement!
If you're gonna be paranoid about some obscure connection to some other group you'll never join or support any group.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-14-2003 12:41: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
Ithaca 37
New member
LA, I'm still waiting for you to name some groups!
I think if you knew of any you would have posted their names by now. Can't you back up anything you claim?
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-14-2003 13:22: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-14-2003 13:22: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
Ithaca 37
New member
Nope, Just working in the office, so I take a break once in awhile to check HT. Can't take working on taxes for very long without a break!
Muledeer4me
New member
"You've lost all credibility and you're as irrelevant as the Iraq's Republican Guard."
Good statement Ithaca,im suprized you of all people would bring up Iraq's Republican Guard LOL wasnt it you along with half of hollywood that put no faith in Bush to kick ass ,or do you still believe it's all about OIL?
Losing credibilty ROFLMAO, that being said by someone that has closer ties to the treehugging ,anti-Bush,hollywood liberal's
You might want to look closer at some of your pet org. and link's LOL after all it was you that posted the anti-meat pro-veg. web site .
So what are we to think?
1.That you are more in line with groups like Earth first,earth justice?
2. That you really do have a problem looking deeper into these green groups and admiting that some do have a deeper hand's off agenda they you knew?
If wilderness isnt restricting or severely limiting motorized use ,what is?
Allowing public land to revert to a natural state? The Wildlands Project isn't about doing that ?
Banning logging LOL I guess in someone's limited greenie view all those tree sitter's and others that have channed thereself in the road or spiked tree's arent trying to stop logging?
Good statement Ithaca,im suprized you of all people would bring up Iraq's Republican Guard LOL wasnt it you along with half of hollywood that put no faith in Bush to kick ass ,or do you still believe it's all about OIL?
Losing credibilty ROFLMAO, that being said by someone that has closer ties to the treehugging ,anti-Bush,hollywood liberal's
You might want to look closer at some of your pet org. and link's LOL after all it was you that posted the anti-meat pro-veg. web site .
So what are we to think?
1.That you are more in line with groups like Earth first,earth justice?
2. That you really do have a problem looking deeper into these green groups and admiting that some do have a deeper hand's off agenda they you knew?
If wilderness isnt restricting or severely limiting motorized use ,what is?
Allowing public land to revert to a natural state? The Wildlands Project isn't about doing that ?
Banning logging LOL I guess in someone's limited greenie view all those tree sitter's and others that have channed thereself in the road or spiked tree's arent trying to stop logging?
Now now MD4M, relax a little. go back and edit your post for spelling and ponc. We got IT to aknowledge there are SOME extreme orgs(aryan nationsetcetc) out there, he's coming along just fine. Can't shove him hard or he balks, just lead'm along and he finds it for himself.
Ithaca 37
New member
MD4M, Yup, you're irrelevant. Remember how you asked people about me who you thought might know me? Well, I've been doing some checking, myself. You're irrelevant.
You don't have any credibility either.
And you're wrong about me and Iraq. The more misinformation you post, the worse you look.
What's this I hear about you refusing to sign the Fish & Game Initiative because you think it's some kinda environmentalist conspiracy?! Are you REALLY that crazy?!!!!
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-14-2003 18:42: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
You don't have any credibility either.
And you're wrong about me and Iraq. The more misinformation you post, the worse you look.
What's this I hear about you refusing to sign the Fish & Game Initiative because you think it's some kinda environmentalist conspiracy?! Are you REALLY that crazy?!!!!
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-14-2003 18:42: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
MD- What's The Wildlands Project about then? Yes, wilderness designation cuts off motorized access, but not access. You can still get in by horse, boat, or even cheaper feet. Will you admit that all environmental groups are not extreme in their views as some that you listed (ie Earth First)? Your blanket statement of all environmental groups being extreme and against all use is just as bad as Ithaca saying tha all ATVs are bad, of which you get on him for.
When's the last time a 'multiple use conservation' organization ponied up the money to protect critical habitat for ANY species? I know TNC, RMEF (which doesn't condone ATV use and doesn't allow advertising for them in Bugle) has. Neither 'side' is perfect, but I know who has done more to preserve the tradition of hunting for future generations by making sure there are places to hunt!
When's the last time a 'multiple use conservation' organization ponied up the money to protect critical habitat for ANY species? I know TNC, RMEF (which doesn't condone ATV use and doesn't allow advertising for them in Bugle) has. Neither 'side' is perfect, but I know who has done more to preserve the tradition of hunting for future generations by making sure there are places to hunt!
JoseCuervo
New member
You guys are kind of getting off-topic here, but I'll help the derailment.
Ithica said <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> If you're gonna be paranoid about some obscure connection to some other group you'll never join or support any group. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> and I think I may have become this.
I no longer am a member of the NRA, as I believe they do not represent me very well, and they promote activitities (canned hunts) that I am not in favor of, but worst of all, if I sent them $35, then they spent $40 trying to get me to send another $50. It seems like their sole purpose was to try and scare me into sending more money, so their VP and ILA director could buy fancier clothes.
And, I think the RMEF has lost sight of their goal, and I would love to see their finanicals, to see how much of their money is going to fund-raising and administration.
I think FNAWS still has their eye on the ball, WWP still does a good job of converting $$$ into results, and then one more group that I support is good at it. And given that I am a man of modest means, and I can't fund them all, I actually prefer single issue groups, with low overhead, as I feel I have an impact, and also a voice.
Just some food for thought,.... and we'll see if anyone starts flaming over my non-membership in the NRA.... Which, by the way, has the Distinguished Senator from Idaho, Larry Craig on its board.
Ithica said <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> If you're gonna be paranoid about some obscure connection to some other group you'll never join or support any group. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> and I think I may have become this.
I no longer am a member of the NRA, as I believe they do not represent me very well, and they promote activitities (canned hunts) that I am not in favor of, but worst of all, if I sent them $35, then they spent $40 trying to get me to send another $50. It seems like their sole purpose was to try and scare me into sending more money, so their VP and ILA director could buy fancier clothes.
And, I think the RMEF has lost sight of their goal, and I would love to see their finanicals, to see how much of their money is going to fund-raising and administration.
I think FNAWS still has their eye on the ball, WWP still does a good job of converting $$$ into results, and then one more group that I support is good at it. And given that I am a man of modest means, and I can't fund them all, I actually prefer single issue groups, with low overhead, as I feel I have an impact, and also a voice.
Just some food for thought,.... and we'll see if anyone starts flaming over my non-membership in the NRA.... Which, by the way, has the Distinguished Senator from Idaho, Larry Craig on its board.
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
Elkgunner, I agree with you regarding the NRA. A couple of years ago I decided I should do my part to protect our right to gun ownership, so I sent them $70 for a 3 year membership. So I started getting the American Hunter magazine, and eventually realize all it is, is one big advertisement for "hunting" on game farms. There is no way I will be sending the NRA any more money, ever! Of course, unless they totally change their promotion of game farms, which I know they won't, because they are making too much money from their endorsement of that industry.
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