House Bill 609 Fee increase!

[SimpleMan]

So you guys want to pay more for resident deer and elk licenses because Montana charges less than other states and there has not been an increase in years? I think I could agree to an increase if there was a need for additional funding, but the job I've been seeing the FWP do I don't see a reason for more funding.

I do not see a shortage of game wardens in the field.
I question some of the Studies that FWP fund and then the results of the study are not utilized and a similar study will be conducted down the road (are they just searching for the answer they want to see? all the while spending money, or they bored and want to get out of the office for a while?).

So I don't see a need to give the FWP more money by raising license fees. I think I'd rather keep the fees the way they are.

 

[mdunc8]

I question some of the Studies that FWP fund and then the results of the study are not utilized and a similar study will be conducted down the road (are they just searching for the answer they want to see? all the while spending money, or they bored and want to get out of the office for a while?).

Examples?

 

[shoots-straight]

So you guys want to pay more for resident deer and elk licenses because Montana charges less than other states and there has not been an increase in years? I think I could agree to an increase if there was a need for additional funding, but the job I've been seeing the FWP do I don't see a reason for more funding.

I do not see a shortage of game wardens in the field.
I question some of the Studies that FWP fund and then the results of the study are not utilized and a similar study will be conducted down the road (are they just searching for the answer they want to see? all the while spending money, or they bored and want to get out of the office for a while?).

So I don't see a need to give the FWP more money by raising license fees. I think I'd rather keep the fees the way they are.

Dude, the agency is going deep in the red, in the very near future. The game wardens are paid less than any others in the inter mountain region. We are loosing ours to other states at a ever increasing fast pace.

The department can't afford flights to survey game populations. I belong to a club that keeps picking up the tab on flights because of that. How can we manage wildlife without the data.

We could care less about what other states do, but when our agency goes in the toilet, and it's proven that our priced tags are less that comparable states, it's time to pony up.

Here in the Root, we have been without a bio for the last six months so the department can save money. We are also down 1 game warden.

It's time to pony up.

Most of the studies that the Department are involved in are paid for through other funds. Sportsmans groups have paid a large portion of the studies that are on going in the Root.

 

[Straight Arrow]

SimpleMan, you aren't related to John Brenden by any chance? ('Just kidding, but still .... ?)

Valid beefs with FWP are good to air out. Every state agency needs to be held accountable and the one entrusted with our wildlife and hunting legacy certainly should held to a high standard.

Your comments seem to have an unexplained edge ... something you care to share?

 

[mtmuley]

Maybe doesn't want to see game wardens in the field. mtmuley

 

[Topgun 30-06]

If I hadn't read that this thread is about Montana, I would swear I'm reading about Wyoming where I hunt every year. Plus, there are always the chosen few who come on a thread like this and say there is no way there should be a price increase and spout off with comments showing they have no idea what they're talking about. My gosh, anyone that would say they can't afford a darn good increase in all the resident tag fees in Montana or Wyoming should take a close look and see what all the NRs are paying. If we can keep subsidizing all the western states with our out-of -kilter high NR fees, and that's exactly what's happening, there is no reason the resident fees shouldn't at least double for deer and elk tags.

 

[mtmuley]

Double? No. But I've been waiting for an increase for years. Like I said, we're spoiled here in Montana. mtmuley

 

[SimpleMan]

No I'm not related to John Brenden.

But Mountain lion Studies, I know there has been one in 1990's, Garnet (FWP funded), Breaks, Bitterroot (Externally funded.) I visited a gentleman that said his master thesis was on lion's in the 60's maybe but FWP was involved in that also. That is all that I know of, I have not searched for additional but 4 in the last 30 years seems kind of high. I also know that Alberta had Lion study which would have information Montana could use.

And no I'm not afraid to see Game Wardens in the field, I do follow the laws. But I do think if I'm running into them a high percentage of the time I'm in the field then there are too many of them, there is not a big master poaching ring leader under every rock. I also question their motives by the Sheep sting they failed on - since many of us will never draw a sheep tag. Maybe I should be a game warden so I can start hunting trophy animals under the ruse of investigation.

But like I said if there is a valid reason to raise the price of tags I'd be on board, but just to give more money to the government so they can play secret spy on sheep hunts and to pay for another study - I'd rather not have license fees raised.

 

[BuzzH]

Painting with a pretty broad brush there...one warden every 2,000 square miles is too many?

Not that much poaching?

Must be nice to live in fantasyland.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I took my kids skiing this weekend and it was more costly than all my licenses last year. My son, as a youth, basically hunted for free. It aint right. If somebody can't drop at least double what we pay now, find a new hobby.

 

[mdunc8]

But Mountain lion Studies, I know there has been one in 1990's, Garnet (FWP funded), Breaks, Bitterroot (Externally funded.) I visited a gentleman that said his master thesis was on lion's in the 60's maybe but FWP was involved in that also. That is all that I know of, I have not searched for additional but 4 in the last 30 years seems kind of high. I also know that Alberta had Lion study which would have information Montana could use.

You're right. Nothing has changed in Montana in the last 30 years and the same things that happen in the Breaks must be happening in the Bitterroot. Shoots-straight, you agree?

 

[SimpleMan]

No Mdunc8, I think you are right. You really helped me see the light those 2 areas are different.

I think the mule deer in the breaks have bigger ears than the bitterroot, or maybe visa versa? anyways if I don't agree with you looks like you have recruited your buddy to agree with you.

 

[TheJason]

The wage that FWP pays its game wardens is absolutely embarrassing. It's pretty bad when FWP is losing officers to MHP, local municipalities, and campus police departments.

 

[mdunc8]

For a great example of how things don't change over 30 years, please see below.

View attachment Minimum count charts. Wolf 2011.2.pdf

Yup, looks like the Breaks are the same as the Bitterroot.

General Montana wolf distribution

anyways if I don't agree with you looks like you have recruited your buddy to agree with you.

Pretty sure Shoots doesn't consider me a "buddy" of his. Shoots, am I wrong?

 

[Dinkshooter]

If you are making minimum wage, you have way more problems than the price of a deer tag. Such As: resealing the roof on you trailer, putting fuel into your 1982 Toyota hatchback, getting enough willow twigs to stoke the woodstove all winter, putting a few extra $ aside for lottery tickets, getting enough Marlboro Miles to get a new coat for winter, etc, etc.

 

[shoots-straight]

For a great example of how things don't change over 30 years, please see below.

View attachment 35326

Yup, looks like the Breaks are the same as the Bitterroot.
View attachment 35327
General Montana wolf distribution



Pretty sure Shoots doesn't consider me a "buddy" of his. Shoots, am I wrong?

Whether or not I'm anyone's "Buddy" doesn't matter here. By taking a look at the facts of this issue, I think the majority of sportsman will suck it up and pay a little more. Even though we cry like babies at the notion of increased license fees, when it's all said and done, I think Montana sportsman will come forward and make the right choice.

Folks, "OUR" Fish and Game department is in trouble, and we need to get some money in there to support it. I know that they seem to do things contrary to the way we feel at times, but holding out money because they do certain things we might not agree with, isn't productive. It's just vengeful.

As Buzz stated, get involved in "YOUR" Fish and game matters. Your not going to win every war, but getting yourself engorged in the what's going on is good for our politics, our wildlife, and might even be good for public opinion in the long run.

 

[mdunc8]

Whether or not I'm anyone's "Buddy" doesn't matter here.

So you're telling me there's a chance?!?

 

[shoots-straight]

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[RobG]

Idaho Fish and Game used to have an annual attempt at getting a fee increase. There was a group of folks including a group that I think was called "Upper Snake Sportsmen" who would continually fight this and pretty much do anything in their power to bash IDF&G. The Legislature seized on this animosity and used it as an excuse to keep IDF&G defunded and hostage to their anit-wildlife agenda. About the time I moved back to Montana Idahoans were lamenting that "Montana is what Idaho used to be."

We have to step up and support FWP if we want to continue to have it really good.

 

[Ben Lamb]

It's important to note that FWP has been budgeting in relation to license fee increases every 5 years for a few decades now, so it's no shock that FWP has reached the end of their financial curve.

Here's fwp's projected budget picture:

It's also important to remember that it's hunters and anglers who pay for the conservation and management of wildlife. It's simple: Everyone has had increased costs in the last 5 years. Why wouldn't FWP?

And for the record, I'd love to run into a warden every now and again when I'm fishing or hunting. I rarely see them.