Southwind
New member
If you gents decide on a fire sale, let me know.
help - poor grouping???
- Thread starter Baerman
- Start date
BuzzH
Well-known member
Bone stock youth model Rem 700 7-08, nothing done to it but shooting.
Had great luck with both 120's and 140's nothing shot less than 1.75 inches for10 different loads. Best were well under 1".
Settled on 120 BT's at 2825 FPS with a mild load of H380.
100 yards, in a 15 MPH gusty wind:
Backed up to 200 yards and shot 3 pretty fast to confirm bullet drop and make sure things were squared away...same 15-20 mph cross wind.
Everything was spot on, so now its off to the nephew to see if he can shoot the barrel out.
BTW, to the OP, I would make sure the action screws are tight on your rifle and if that isn't the problem, I would bed it.
Had great luck with both 120's and 140's nothing shot less than 1.75 inches for10 different loads. Best were well under 1".
Settled on 120 BT's at 2825 FPS with a mild load of H380.
100 yards, in a 15 MPH gusty wind:
Backed up to 200 yards and shot 3 pretty fast to confirm bullet drop and make sure things were squared away...same 15-20 mph cross wind.
Everything was spot on, so now its off to the nephew to see if he can shoot the barrel out.
BTW, to the OP, I would make sure the action screws are tight on your rifle and if that isn't the problem, I would bed it.
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Power54
New member
I've been having the same issue with a M70 Extreme Weather in .300 WSM. I've been battling with it for 2.5 years trying to get it to reliably shoot sub-MOA. So far, its been 1.5-2 MOA reliably. It's a real head scratcher. I'm still working at it, different bullets and powders but I'm reaching the end of my patience. A few more tweaks and then I'll probably send it in to Winchester to have them look it over and then decide if I go the new barrel route or just scrap it and start over.
JohnCushman
Well-known member
My Savage 111 .300 win mag had the same issue with grouping. I had a buddy work up a couple of different handloads for it and they didn't shoot well. I don't reload, so I tried a couple of different factory ammo's and the results were very interesting from ammo to ammo. The expensive ones I thought would be right on actually sucked the most. I ended up shooting Federal blue box soft points the best overall. I can get about 1/2 inch groups with it and usually touch a couple of shots together with it. I would suggest trying a couple of different brands of factory ammo and see what happens. Your rifle will dictate what it likes no matter what you WANT to shoot or load.
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idahofishnhunt
Well-known member
Could be your rifle just doesn't like those Berger bullets. You should chrono those loads and see if they are consistent too...if they aren't, then that most likely is not the load you should be shooting. I don't shoot magnums, but I usually take the hottest load it safely recommends and back it down about 5 grains...then load 5 cartridges in 0.5 grain increments up...to see which one groups the best...maybe that's what you've done? Chronographing them though will see if that particular load is shooting consistently though...and not all over the board.
Rancho Loco
Well-known member
Thanks again for all input. I'll check the screws, scope mount and bedding on the rifle first. I'll also load some new accubonds to try one more time. After that....who wants a new Winchester Model 70 weather extreme in 300 win mag. It shoots...but that is about it!
If this doesn't get straightened out, I'll never own another Winchester. Thanks for all of your input gents!
Check the screws. Stop with the reloads. Make sure the scope is good.
Start with a baseline after you check out any mechanical issues. Blue box federals are your friend.
I agree. My New Haven 270 will shoot 5/8 inch groups consistently. It's the best grouping rifle I own.
havgunwilltravel
Active member
Where are the bullets sitting in regards to the lands?
Sometimes its good to shoot a ladder group with .5gr increases in powder and see where it tightens up keeping an eye on pressure signs.
If its shooting a couple bullets close together and then a flyer or two, then something isn't holding firm. Could very well be the scope or mounts or screws in action and mounts/rings.
Where is your trigger at, so many hunters have their triggers at 2-2.5kg, holy crap that is like pulling a 30lb recurve bow back to drop the hammer. Very hard to consistently hold on target with a heavy pull and a long release. I like to have short lightweight triggers around 0.75kg-1kg on all my hunting rifles. It can make a huge difference.
Do you have or need a good recoil pad on it?
Are you steady on the bench and not flinching, is the gun rock steady before your releasing the trigger? Whats the crosshiar thickness like when you hold on the target, can you see your aiming point clearly? What targets are you shooting at?
So many variables, but in a stock standard hunting rig from the factory, i think 1MOA is about right and good enough for the field for most normal applications.
Good luck with it. We have shot a lot of rifles over the years at the range, and some will just simply shoot better then others, even with the same type of rifle etc and others can be fussy as to what load and projectile they are firing.
Sometimes its good to shoot a ladder group with .5gr increases in powder and see where it tightens up keeping an eye on pressure signs.
If its shooting a couple bullets close together and then a flyer or two, then something isn't holding firm. Could very well be the scope or mounts or screws in action and mounts/rings.
Where is your trigger at, so many hunters have their triggers at 2-2.5kg, holy crap that is like pulling a 30lb recurve bow back to drop the hammer. Very hard to consistently hold on target with a heavy pull and a long release. I like to have short lightweight triggers around 0.75kg-1kg on all my hunting rifles. It can make a huge difference.
Do you have or need a good recoil pad on it?
Are you steady on the bench and not flinching, is the gun rock steady before your releasing the trigger? Whats the crosshiar thickness like when you hold on the target, can you see your aiming point clearly? What targets are you shooting at?
So many variables, but in a stock standard hunting rig from the factory, i think 1MOA is about right and good enough for the field for most normal applications.
Good luck with it. We have shot a lot of rifles over the years at the range, and some will just simply shoot better then others, even with the same type of rifle etc and others can be fussy as to what load and projectile they are firing.
I'm not positive where the bullet is sitting in regards to the lands. the OAL of the load was 3.34" as recommended by Berger. the bullet was set all the way to the ogive...or it appeared, as there are no markings near the shoulder of the bullet on the Bergers.
The trigger it tight and crisp at a 3 lb pull. it's very comfortable.
During this range day I had the rifle set in a lead sled. I'm confident it was not shooter error that caused 3" groups. Shooting was very comfortable and I focused on a smooth pull through the shot after the first group and nothing changed. My sight was rock solid at the pull.
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I'll admit, I am a rookie with the hand loading. All of my loading was per the spec. I looked at the recommended max load of 81 grains, backed off 5 grains and loaded five loads in 1 gr increments for testing. I am confident in the loads as I had a friend experienced in loading walk me through the process. Also seeing that I had some factory loads to shoot prior to testing my custom loads with similar results tells me at least with the bullets that I was shooting it's not necessarily a load issue but again I am very new to this level of detail with guns. I have never had a rifle shoot this poor though either. And my last rifle was a tack driver but got stolen so I have high expectations now.
I'll play with seating the bullet at different depths and load into rifle then look for markings on the bullet. I saw on some reloading forum to do this test so we can give it a whirl.
I'll check the screws. On the rifle. Anyone recommend a youtube video for this? Is a torque wrench/screw driver required?
You guys are great!
I'll play with seating the bullet at different depths and load into rifle then look for markings on the bullet. I saw on some reloading forum to do this test so we can give it a whirl.
I'll check the screws. On the rifle. Anyone recommend a youtube video for this? Is a torque wrench/screw driver required?
You guys are great!
VAspeedgoat
Well-known member
All are great suggestions but I would like to add onto the copper fouling. I have two guns in particular that foul worse than others. I was ready to junk them both until a friend used his bore scope to show me the copper fouling. It took 4 times with foaming cleaner to get the barrel pretty good. I shot it again and it was better. 4 more times and it was clean and went back to its old self again. Now I regularly clean with foaming bore cleaner to nake sure it doesn't happen. So, in other words it may take a few times. I apologize if you've already commented on that I just breezed through the previous posts.
By the way, I thought this was gonna be a thread about somebody's team being in the wrong bracket in the tournament or something.
By the way, I thought this was gonna be a thread about somebody's team being in the wrong bracket in the tournament or something.
Rancho Loco
Well-known member
Stop fiddle farting with reloads until you know your rig is sound. You're just wasting time and money.
VAspeedgoat
Well-known member
This is pretty good advise. Clean, tighten, and stay with factory ammo to rule out the gun and scope. Then you can worry about the loads. Most of the time the issue is simple, you just have to check one thing at a time from the beginning to the end.
devon deer
Well-known member
I have been down this damned road myself.
All above is great advice, you must be forming a plan of action now.
I would just add, to reinforce others, back to basics, rule yourself out first, take a competent friend, if he has the same problem, you are out of the equation.
Forget home loads, buy some cheap ammo, cheap as chips is Privi ammo, but it's ok for what you want.
Then rule out everything else as already stated
My problem turned out to be Warne steel mounts, fitted Leupold and it was sorted.
Finally, don't concern yourself with clover leaf groups, i have yet to see a deer's heart in that shape or size.
Best of luck
Cheers
Richard
All above is great advice, you must be forming a plan of action now.
I would just add, to reinforce others, back to basics, rule yourself out first, take a competent friend, if he has the same problem, you are out of the equation.
Forget home loads, buy some cheap ammo, cheap as chips is Privi ammo, but it's ok for what you want.
Then rule out everything else as already stated
My problem turned out to be Warne steel mounts, fitted Leupold and it was sorted.
Finally, don't concern yourself with clover leaf groups, i have yet to see a deer's heart in that shape or size.
Best of luck
Cheers
Richard
idahofishnhunt
Well-known member
This is the torque setup I have...you should be able to look up the specs on your rings on their website to see how much torque they should get.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/816462/wheeler-engineering-scope-mounting-combo-kit-1-and-30mm
Knowing you haven't had this rifle that long, and probably have not shot a ton out of it...I seriously doubt you have too much fouling in the barrel that would cause any issues. Is this the only powder you've tried?...and all out of the same canister?
VAspeedgoat
Well-known member
Aren't new barrels notorious for copper fouling due to tooling marks? Not arguing, its just how I understood things.
idahofishnhunt
Well-known member
I have no idea, could be. So I wonder decades ago how they cleaned the copper out of their barrels...I doubt those old timers cared too much about it. I really doubt this could be the problem for a group to open up that much, with minimal amount of rounds through it.
