Google Bot Data Mined Super-Fund Site

[Hams42]

Yeah well keep those rams close to your heart.

You betcha. My goal is to have a ram close to my heart.
My true goal is to explore some new country and not to tuck my tail and run home.

 

[buffybr]

I know for a fact that if you draw a special sheep tag, and are on your 7-year wait, you can still buy an unlimited tag.
Not saying it's legal, but the system lets you do it.

From page 36 of the 2023 MT Bighorn Sheep Regulations, "An applicant who receives a limited either-sex or legal ram license is not eligible to apply for or receive another either-sex or legal ram bighorn sheep license for the next secceeding seven years."

It further states, "An applicant who receives an unlimited legal ram license and harvests a legal ram is not eligible to receive or apply for another bighorn sheep lilcense for the following seven years."

I read that as saying that anyone who just draws a limited sheep license is not eligible to apply or receive another bighorn sheep license for the next secceeding seven years. When you buy an unlimited sheep license you receive it.

Clear as mud???

 

[Drake4]

I agree with you. I'm just saying the system allows you to purchase an unlimited license while on your 7-year wait after drawing a permit.

 

[Beignet]

I’d say email the head of the department about folks being able to buy an UL tag during their waiting period. Licensing used to be his division. Would be curious to see if he could get a thing fixed.

 

[mtnkid85]

Seems like this would be a really simple thing to look into, they're only selling between 30-60 licenses per year per unit. With only 1-7 harvests per year. Have any of those successful guys bought another tag in the 7 period? Has anyone harvested another ram?

The department first needs to figure out if this is actually a problem that people are exploiting.

 

[BAKPAKR]

Seems like this would be a really simple thing to look into, they're only selling between 30-60 licenses per year per unit. With only 1-7 harvests per year. Have any of those successful guys bought another tag in the 7 period? Has anyone harvested another ram?

The department first needs to figure out if this is actually a problem that people are exploiting.

In post #3750, @theat told about running into someone with a sheep tag hunting two years after taking a ram. So, it sounds like it happens. If there is any loophole, someone will exploit it.

 

[Labman]

Seems like this would be a really simple thing to look into, they're only selling between 30-60 licenses per year per unit. With only 1-7 harvests per year. Have any of those successful guys bought another tag in the 7 period? Has anyone harvested another ram?

The department first needs to figure out if this is actually a problem that people are exploiting.

The days of 30-60 tags ended in 2010. Now it’s 130-160.

 

[mtnkid85]

The days of 30-60 tags ended in 2010. Now it’s 130-160.

FWP :: Harvest Estimates

 

[mtnkid85]

In post #3750, @theat told about running into someone with a sheep tag hunting two years after taking a ram. So, it sounds like it happens. If there is any loophole, someone will exploit it.

I agree, thats why Im saying this seems like an easy thing for the department to look into. We have an anecdotal report of at least one guy doing it, we can all see that the system lets you purchase the tag with in the wait period.
Just how pervasive is it? Sending out a letter to those guys who have purchased the tag would be a good start. If anyone has harvested in the wait period, they should be easy to find.

 

[Beignet]

The days of 30-60 tags ended in 2010. Now it’s 130-160.

It looks like the most sold in the 500's since 1985 was 130 in one of the more popular units in 2020. 75 folks actually hunted the tag. Appears there was some ambition during the first year of the cornonavid. 55 actually hunted the unit in 2021.

 

[Labman]

FWP :: Harvest Estimates

Huntin’ Fool claims 164 in 300, 148 in 303, 126 in 500, 159 in 501, and 119 in 502 for 2022. That link shows a harvest in 500 for 2022, which was not a ram, ewe or lamb. Who is a guy supposed to believe?

 

[Beignet]

Huntin’ Fool claims 164 in 300, 148 in 303, 126 in 500, 159 in 501, and 119 in 502 for 2022. That link shows a harvest in 500 for 2022, which was not a ram, ewe or lamb. Who is a guy supposed to believe?

Ha! I can see how you're hesitant to trust the site.

The folks (or singular folk, rather) at R5 keep tabs on how many tags were sold and how many actually hunted in each of their units. The info I have for R3 does not contain that breakdown.

 

[Labman]

Ha! I can see how you're hesitant to trust the site.

The folks (or singular folk, rather) at R5 keep tabs on how many tags were sold and how many actually hunted in each of their units. The info I have for R3 does not contain that breakdown.

When you see the draw stats in the proclamation that are 100% useless and meaningless you have to doubt all data obtained from that source.

 

[EYJONAS!]

I'm fairly certain that those numbers are skewed from what I've been told. They don't account for the people who purchase the tag outright in their statistics. They only account for the amount that apply for the tags in the "draws" even through they're guaranteed...

Maybe that was already stated though.

 

[Lambchoppa]

Hey all, just got done catching back up. Speaking on information from FWP. The sheep regulations state at the top of the unit listings a ram from unlimited sheep units must be physically presented within 48 hours of harvest. It then later says under the unit in the table a harvest must be reported within 48 hours (if I’m not mistaken it used to say 24 hours to report). So if this has changed does it have to be both within the 48 or just reported within the 48?

If you harvest a ram and report it (call/web) at hour 12 does that leave 36 hours to get it physically checked or do they start a new 48 hour clock from that point? Do they give you some other deadline or? I know some people have had FWP meet them at trail heads, parking lots or other places.

Figured I would bring this up as we are on the subject of FWP and clarity. I have seen a lot of opinions on this.

 

[Irishman]

Anyone caught doing that should be treated like they are hunting without a license, since they can't legally hunt for 7 years. Throw the book at them and give them a lifetime ban on top of everything.

I agree. Just because there is a flaw in the system that allows you to buy the license, doesn't change the fact that you're breaking the rules. If you buy any license, it comes with limitations and rules on how you can use it.

 

[Bascott1]

Long time lurker. Enjoyed the heck out of this thread for sure. Looking at giving her a go this year? Anyone need a partner? Got two weeks off in sept and figured might as well see what it’s all about.

 

[232401a]

I agree. Just because there is a flaw in the system that allows you to buy the license, doesn't change the fact that you're breaking the rules. If you buy any license, it comes with limitations and rules on how you can use it.

Sure, one should do what they know is the correct application of the law. I would wonder whether one is applying the law correctly if Montana’s own software is applying it differently.

A judge is very likely to be sympathetic to the hunter if he is acting consistent with the agency’s software. Maybe Montana should simplify their regs if they are confusing their own software developers. And they haven’t fixed this despite multiple reports.

 

[MTGomer]

I'm fairly certain that those numbers are skewed from what I've been told. They don't account for the people who purchase the tag outright in their statistics. They only account for the amount that apply for the tags in the "draws" even through they're guaranteed...

Maybe that was already stated though.

As far as I know, you’re correct.

I know that someone has asked FWP about this and got nowhere with it.

 

[Irishman]

Sure, one should do what they know is the correct application of the law. I would wonder whether one is applying the law correctly if Montana’s own software is applying it differently.

A judge is very likely to be sympathetic to the hunter if he is acting consistent with the agency’s software. Maybe Montana should simplify their regs if they are confusing their own software developers. And they haven’t fixed this despite multiple reports.

If you said you lost your elk tag, and FWP allowed you to buy a replacement tag, can you now shoot 2 elk? Would the judge be sympathetic because the system allowed you to buy a second tag?
The regulations are the law.