Go Vote!

[Nemont]

OH BTW Nemont. I do represent members of several hook and bullet organizations and will testify upon their behalf. I promise that I'll not pretend to speak for you.

I got into sportsman activism because things started to effect me and my family members. Western Montana had many new pressures being applied that started effecting big game populations and access a little earlier than the east did.

Not sure why you jumped me in the first place. Only you can answer that question.

Yeah I never supported any hook and bullet causes. I give generously every year.

I didn't see it as jumping on you. You were whining about your time being taken up. You volunteered, that is all I said. I never made a judgment about you, your motives or your politics.

It was you whining that the world was ending because the Republicans won some seats in this election


Nemont
.

 

[Nemont]

Holy crap, with that huge barrier there is no way it could ever happen. Thanks for pointing that out.

Then let's bet on it. I will bet $1,000 that in the next two years there is not a bill passed out of the congress to give lands to the states.

Nemont

 

[Nemont]

Lets talk when the next President becomes a Republican. We are a min of 2 years out.

Name a Republican who can win a national election. Out of the current crop it is zero

Nemont

 

[whiskeydog]

I'll side with Nemont on all of this. While sportsman's issues are a huge issue for us here in MT, and democrats seem to side with sportsman on state issues, on the national level there is much more at stake. I'll side against Republicans on the issue of state control of federal lands, but that is not enough to sway my vote when there are soooo many more issues of great importance at stake....I don't even need to list them because it would take hours. As for Simpson-Tester...woop dee doo! That was one issue where MT senators of either party could get the support of every Montanan other than the hippies. Ranchers and hunters argue about a lot, but with wolves, they can agree. If we had a Repub in office at the time rather than Tester, it could very easily have been someone else's name at the back of that bill. I hope I never lose any hunting liberties over the way I vote, however I can't turn my head to all the other issues at hand when I cast my vote.

 

[sra61]

Tester may have helped to delist wolves, but more importantly to me, he helped shove Obamacare down our throats! For me that trumps everything! Tester is no friend of mine! That's costing me and mine a crapload of cash.

 

[shoots-straight]

Name a Republican who can win a national election. Out of the current crop it is zero

Nemont

Name a Demo?

 

[Nemont]

Name a Demo?

Answer my question first

 

[shoots-straight]

Looks like the elections show that those in favor of state land take over won! Will the rank and file sportsman come out in support of public lands? If past history repeats itself it will be a sad day for the future of hunting as we know it.

Nemont, this is what I posted when you jumped on me.

I didn't see it as jumping on you. You were whining about your time being taken up. You volunteered, that is all I said. I never made a judgment about you, your motives or your politics.

Where in that upper post did I whine about my time being taken up? That came later with your prodding. It would be nice if your memory of events where as solid as your belief that our public lands will be safe for as long as you are able to hunt on them. I would hope and wish that they would last (AS IS)way longer than that.

It's the small things that erode our heritage in time. It's not the end of the world for sure, but it will get nasty.

 

[shoots-straight]

Answer my question first

One will emerge. Might be Romney, or Palin. Doesn't matter, I give it a 70 / 30 chance of being a Republican. Gary Marbut is ahead in his race in MISSOULA of all places. Mob mentality. A true Sportman's friend and ally (Bill Gear) ran in another race in Missoula county and lost to a right winger. Amanda Curtis carried Missoula county. Figure those out. (Just rechecked, Gary Marbut is now 29 votes down.) Still unbelievable in Missoula

In the Root we elected some real winners 6 years ago.( Mob mentality) Just now voters had enough of their antics and voted them out. Not with Dems but more Republicans. Which is alright, I voted for most of the new ones too. No Dems there.

 

[RobG]

Then let's bet on it. I will bet $1,000 that in the next two years there is not a bill passed out of the congress to give lands to the states.

Well, I would bet your last reasoning for it not happening was pretty dang silly...

This stuff isn't going to happen overnight or even in two years but some Rs will continue to chip away at the barriers. It is pretty naive to think it can't happen when it is in the platform at the state level and there is such huge money driving the issue. I'm really disappointed in Daines and his bill - I thought he was better than that. The Ryan budget wants to bypass the states altogether and just privatize some lands - and that might slip through.

 

[RobG]

I'll side with Nemont on all of this. While sportsman's issues are a huge issue for us here in MT, and democrats seem to side with sportsman on state issues, on the national level there is much more at stake. I'll side against Republicans on the issue of state control of federal lands, but that is not enough to sway my vote when there are soooo many more issues of great importance at stake....I don't even need to list them because it would take hours. As for Simpson-Tester...woop dee doo! That was one issue where MT senators of either party could get the support of every Montanan other than the hippies. Ranchers and hunters argue about a lot, but with wolves, they can agree. If we had a Repub in office at the time rather than Tester, it could very easily have been someone else's name at the back of that bill. I hope I never lose any hunting liberties over the way I vote, however I can't turn my head to all the other issues at hand when I cast my vote.

Well that is just wrong... we did have a republican in office - Rehberg. He evan had his own "solution" but it was so stupid it didn't stand a chance. It was Tester, Baucus, and Simpson (R) that decided it was time to behave like leaders and solve a real problem. The other R's had plenty of opportunities to get their name on that bill but chose to fight it instead.

 

[katqanna]

Kat,

You may want to revisit you High School Government class. Any bill that is still in the hopper at the end of a Congressional Term is dead, even if it passed one half of congress. They would have to reintroduce this bill in the House and get it passed and then it would require a cloture vote in the Senate in order to proceed.

So passing a bill in the House during the 112th congress and then waitng to see if you have a majority in the 113th congress is a meaningless strategy.

If you guys are so certain of this then put your money up, what is the bet? There is not gong to be a bill to turn public lands over to states to manage as they see fit.

Nemont

Nemont, had to run off to the Region 3 Supervisor forum, so I couldnt properly reply before (or write apparently). Arent we in the 113th Congress going to the 114th or were you just using that as an example? I know they cant pass a bill from one term to another unless reintroduced. When I called DC about the status this summer, they explained that it was stalled, that Republicans did not want it to go through the Senate without a majority and have it killed, so they were waiting for this next election to hopefully gain a majority. I understood that they were referring to the next term, expecting to not lose a majority in the House.

Here are the maps for what that looks like now. Tried to find some that were not blinking or very large, so just linking, sorry. Majorities in both House and Senate now so they could reintroduce this monstrosity and pass it through congress. At which point I hope we would get a veto from the President. But as Shoots pointed out, what about in 2 years?

With Public Lands as an issue, I would not have thought there would have been the Republican gains Federally or State wise they had, but there were. I have read reports of the major amount of money spent by certain PAC's, dark money, the Koch's and a journalist sent this to me after my newsletter went out on the 3rd concerning the Wilks nationwide. Their contributions totaled $1.2 million in just six states. If you look at the tabs you see a steep increase in the past five years. In 2009 there is next to nothing to $665,000 in 2014. How much will this type of spending on candidates affect the next election? What will be bought with it?

I thought cloture had to do with timing of a vote involving debate, not reintroduction. But, not being a big fan of politics, I may not be understanding that properly.

 

[whiskeydog]

Well that is just wrong... we did have a republican in office - Rehberg. He evan had his own "solution" but it was so stupid it didn't stand a chance. It was Tester, Baucus, and Simpson (R) that decided it was time to behave like leaders and solve a real problem. The other R's had plenty of opportunities to get their name on that bill but chose to fight it instead.

No...not wrong. You are going to call Baucus and Tester "leaders" because they introduced one bill that you support. A bill that was easy for the vast majority of Montanans (democrat or republican) to get behind? Unless they listen to Pearl Jam and live in Missoula, the people of the state wanted wolves to be hunted. Well, if you support the rest of their platforms, then that's your right, but I'm not going to sing praises to the heavens based on one bill. The whole point of this discussion is whether it is in the best interest to vote for "pro-sportsman" democrats when there may be bigger issues at stake that they don't support. My point is that having a MT democrat sponsor one bill, doesn't mean the whole party is on our side. MT democrats may not go as far left as the rest of their party may like, but they still side with the vast majority of issues that I believe are not in the best interest of the country as a whole. If you vote democrat because you believe as they do, then good on you. If you vote democrat on a national level because you think they are "pro-sportsman" ...you are sheltered and naive.

 

[whiskeydog]

Actually, this is ridiculous. Nemont is saying not to worry about voting for Republicans based solely on the public land issue because their is no way that bill could pass. Others have made the argument (not on this thread) that their is no way Democrats can take away our guns. Lets just make this easy and assume both are possible. Go ahead and vote for your Democrat pro-public land candidates on a national level and enjoy hunting on your public land with your spear and sling shot.
I say there are many, many more issues as stake, on a national level, that need to be considered when casting a vote.

 

[tjones]

No...not wrong. You are going to call Baucus and Tester "leaders" because they introduced one bill that you support. A bill that was easy for the vast majority of Montanans (democrat or republican) to get behind? Unless they listen to Pearl Jam and live in Missoula, the people of the state wanted wolves to be hunted..

Problem was it mattered not one bit that the " vast majority of Montanas" wanted wolves hunted. This was a national issue dealing with the ESA and a bunch of whack jobs filing lawsuits.

 

[Zach]

How did that come about from last nights election?

Did the increase in demand from 2012 to 2013 have any effect on whoever made that decision?

Just a little levity...at least for me.

 

[RobG]

No...not wrong. You are going to call Baucus and Tester "leaders" because they introduced one bill that you support. A bill that was easy for the vast majority of Montanans (democrat or republican) to get behind?

Gee WD, that Rehberg screwed that up was the point... Rehberg (and other area Republicans) could have done what Montanans wanted but he decided to fan the flames so he would have something to complain about... That's politics at the expense of the people. Tester/Baucus/Simpson rolled up their sleeves and got it done. That's leadership for the benefit of the people.

 

[Ben Lamb]

You guys.

Shut up and take a politician hunting.

http://stalkingtheseam.com/2014/11/05/vote-early-vote-often-with-your-boots/

 

[RobG]

You guys.

Shut up and take a politician hunting.

http://stalkingtheseam.com/2014/11/05/vote-early-vote-often-with-your-boots/

meh, lame, but if I did it would be Zinke's director as he shoots enough for the whole crew

 

[Nemont]

Well, I would bet your last reasoning for it not happening was pretty dang silly...

This stuff isn't going to happen overnight or even in two years but some Rs will continue to chip away at the barriers. It is pretty naive to think it can't happen when it is in the platform at the state level and there is such huge money driving the issue. I'm really disappointed in Daines and his bill - I thought he was better than that. The Ryan budget wants to bypass the states altogether and just privatize some lands - and that might slip through.

Okay for the last time, care to bet or not, anything can happen let's bet on the next two years if there is a bill or not. I said I would put up $1,000 and nobody is taking it.

Could it happen, sure it could happen, so could a balance budget but I won't hold my breath. the question becomes will it happen. Can you name a time that power and control of almost anything was given back to the states without years of litigation and political fighting? It would require overturning court precedent, bureaucratic inertia, long held beliefs, leases for everything from timber to grazing to oil and gas extraction would be affected. Stakeholders who enjoy the status quo, including those with grazing permits, hunters, recreationist, bird watchers, etc etc are not currently organized in opposition of this but I suspect if push comes to shove you will see a coalition of such interest fight giving public lands to the states.

I don't think the election of Republicans means the world is ending unless you are a partisan hack. I also don't believe that President Obama gets up every day trying to figure out how to take my guns and ruin the country. Neither side is worth a shit but I am willing to bet any takers that we will still be hunting on public lands next season and the seasons after. Now who wants to make a wager?

Nemont