Forest Service Issues ‘E-Bike’ Guidance

[DFS]

Technology needs to stop. There are worse things out there than e bikes it all needs to stop.

 

[BenInMT]

Clearly they are motorcycles and need to be regulated as such. I am concerned with the ever growing capability of electric boat motors and their ability to skirt the laws that were written to let a guy take a little trolling motor.

 

[Dirthog67]

Technology needs to stop. There are worse things out there than e bikes it all needs to stop.

Can't stop the wheel.

 

[Sytes]

...and average people access to places they wouldn't otherwise have.

Please, for sake of - heck, I dunno, boredom, expound on how average people would have "access to places they wouldn't otherwise have."

However, class one is a hellofa lot more bike than you profess:
Example:
Bulls EV AM 4 CLASS ONE:
Turbo = adds up to 340% more than what you put in.
Tour = adds up to 140% more than what you put in.
Eco = adds 60% up to 20mph.

Again, this is a class one electric MOTORIZED mountain bike.

 

[mxracer317]

I am a mountain biker that is back to riding at least twice a week. I have a very nice modern mountain bike. Going uphill is WORK, while bombing down is fun as hell. Plain and simple traditional mountain bikes and e-bikes are different critters.

Climbing on any unassisted mountain bike is hard. Any rider will admit that the more you ride the faster the climb gets, but it never really gets easy.

Climbing on an e-bike can be no work. There are settings where you don’t have to pedal. Also, I’ve ridden quite a few, and can pedal up stuff sending a roost that some guys won’t tackle on a dirt bike. I actually think they could get you into areas big bikes could never go, while sneaking along. Aren’t they just e-peds? These e-peds are much more capable though. I’ve ridden full-carbon, fox suspended beasts that feel like super light dirt bikes. Some of them are so slickly designed you barely can even see the motor now.

They’re motorized. Why’s this even a discussion? They stick with motorized trails.

I race dirt bikes, have a specialized e-bike (mtn) and a full pedal only mtn bike.

Throw roost? Don’t have to pedal on e-bike? Dirt bikers won’t even tackle what e-bike will?

C’mon.

You’re wrong on many things in your post. Just sayin’

 

[elkduds]

Even with the dirt bike restriction it still opens allot of land for hunting, as far as accessibility.

Welcome to the forum. You say that like its a good thing. All that land is already open to hunting, if you are willing to work to get there. I see ebikes as more invasive than atvs and motorcycles, if they are allowed on nonmotorized trails.

Can't stop the wheel.

We absolutely can, and have:

Wilderness Act​

The Wilderness Act of 1964 was written by Howard Zahniser of The Wilderness Society. It created the legal definition of wilderness in the United States, and protected 9.1 million acres of federal land. The result of a long effort to protect federal wilderness and to create a formal mechanism for designating wilderness, the Wilderness Act was signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson on September 3, 1964 after over sixty drafts and eight years of work.

• Wikipedia

Legislation is the only thing we have that can stop the electric wheel from occupying nonmotorized trails on public land.

 

[Dirthog67]

Please, for sake of - heck, I dunno, boredom, expound on how average people would have "access to places they wouldn't otherwise have."

However, class one is a hellofa lot more bike than you profess:
Example:
Bulls EV AM 4 CLASS ONE:
Turbo = adds up to 340% more than what you put in.
Tour = adds up to 140% more than what you put in.
Eco = adds 60% up to 20mph.

Again, this is a class one electric MOTORIZED mountain bike.

To ride a mountain bike up a mountain you have to be extremely fit. Its hard. It takes a dedication to fitness to be able to do it.

On an ebike an averagely healthy office worker could do it. Sometimes a disabled person.

Or the less fit family member can keep up if you put them on an ebike.

So you have a lot of aging people that don't have the time or the health or have injuries that prevent them from getting fit enough that can do what they use to do or always dreamed of doing on a regular bike with an ebike.

All those people are lobbying with the people making a whole lot of money selling them to get them allowed anywhere regular bikes are allowed.

And there is a huge range of people. You have the bros that want to rage ebikes like a moto but then you have a retired couple that just want to pedal up a nice dirt road on a Sunday afternoon.

Its going to continue to be an issue...

 

[DFS]

Can't stop the wheel.

Sure we can.

 

[Sytes]

To ride a mountain bike up a mountain you have to be extremely fit. Its hard. It takes a dedication to fitness to be able to do it.

I'm an average 50 y/o. Place my friend's son guru, red bull sponsored, nut of a young buck pal and sure, he'll do laps on me.
However, most anywhere he can go, I can follow... aside from his funky absolutely daredevil, insane, rock hopping stunts.

If it's a trail and we ride equal mtn bikes, it simply take me looonger. It does not increase access to areas I would not have. laziness / determination limits an average person access.

An ebike class one, weighted as they are, are not (yet) rock hoppers though I don't doubt there's some guru capable to some extent.

Point being, an average person can go where a better than average person can within the non motorized blm/fs legal areas.

A class one electric motorized bike simply makes it easier while advertising Dunkin' Donuts.

Your perspective of a class one is not accurate, according to class one specs (not an opinion).

I agree, lobbying is huge and if $$$ can be made - it will continue to push into areas if it sells more.

I've shared in the past with HT crowd, we (boot huggers) needed to ally ourselves w/ human powered mtn bikers long before this turned e-bike "non-motorized..."

Boot huggers and human powered mtn cyclist would have been a more vocal voice opposing e-bike riders...

however, im waiting for hoover boards to pack my gear and game in the wilderness. Haha! All in due time. Figure some anti gravity, "non motorized" board is outside my age to use though it's coming too.

 

[Dirthog67]

I'm an average 50 y/o. Place my friend's son guru, red bull sponsored, nut of a young buck pal and sure, he'll do laps on me.
However, most anywhere he can go, I can follow... aside from his funky absolutely daredevil, insane, rock hopping stunts.

If it's a trail and we ride equal mtn bikes, it simply take me looonger. It does not increase access to areas I would not have. laziness / determination limits an average person access.

An ebike class one, weighted as they are, are not (yet) rock hoppers though I don't doubt there's some guru capable to some extent.

Point being, an average person can go where a better than average person can within the non motorized blm/fs legal areas.

A class one electric motorized bike simply makes it easier while advertising Dunkin' Donuts.

Your perspective of a class one is not accurate, according to class one specs (not an opinion).

I agree, lobbying is huge and if $$$ can be made - it will continue to push into areas if it sells more.

I've shared in the past with HT crowd, we (boot huggers) needed to ally ourselves w/ human powered mtn bikers long before this turned e-bike "non-motorized..."

Boot huggers and human powered mtn cyclist would have been a more vocal voice opposing e-bike riders...

however, im waiting for hoover boards to pack my gear and game in the wilderness. Haha! All in due time. Figure some anti gravity, "non motorized" board is outside my age to use though it's coming too.

I dont disagree, but its not how most people see it.

 

[FairWeather]

I don’t see the issue with it, honestly. I have an e bike that tops out at 20mph, and I’ve been passed by non-motorized cyclists in the bike lane. Are they trying harder? Yes. Is it “fair”? I don’t know, but we’re talking about recreation not competition. You don’t need to earn the outdoors.

If your on a bike trail, watch for all kinds of pedal bikes, simple as that.

 

[Chadwick91]

Welcome to the forum. You say that like its a good thing. All that land is already open to hunting, if you are willing to work to get there. I see ebikes as more invasive than atvs and motorcycles, if they are allowed on nonmotorized trails.


We absolutely can, and have:

Wilderness Act​

The Wilderness Act of 1964 was written by Howard Zahniser of The Wilderness Society. It created the legal definition of wilderness in the United States, and protected 9.1 million acres of federal land. The result of a long effort to protect federal wilderness and to create a formal mechanism for designating wilderness, the Wilderness Act was signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson on September 3, 1964 after over sixty drafts and eight years of work.

• Wikipedia

Legislation is the only thing we have that can stop the electric wheel from occupying nonmotorized trails on public land.

I don't have a problem keeping them on motorized roads, but a dirt bike trail is still a motorized road that you can't take a ATV'S down and some of these dirt bike trails go for 20-30 miles, and I simply don't have time to spend 2 days hiking 20 miles like Brian Call or Ryan Lampers but I can ride a bike for an hour and go the same distance. This for me is a game changer, as for the e-bikes invasiveness how is it worse? They have the same footprint as a dirt bike way less capability to tear up the road, zero carbon emissions, and make hardly any noise, so how in what way do you think they are more invasive than a dirt bike or atv? I doubt you'll see anyone tearing up a mud puddle on an e-bike.

 

[Chadwick91]

I don't have a problem keeping them on motorized roads, but a dirt bike trail is still a motorized road that you can't take a ATV'S down and some of these dirt bike trails go for 20-30 miles, and I simply don't have time to spend 2 days hiking 20 miles like Brian Call or Ryan Lampers but I can ride a bike for an hour and go the same distance. This for me is a game changer, as for the e-bikes invasiveness how is it worse? They have the same footprint as a dirt bike way less capability to tear up the road, zero carbon emissions, and make hardly any noise, so how in what way do you think they are more invasive than a dirt bike or atv? I doubt you'll see anyone tearing up a mud puddle on an e-bike.

Also thank you for the welcome. I'm glad to be here!

 

[mtmuley]

From what I've seen in most states you are good to ride your e-bike on everything down to a dirt bike trail, Utah let's you have them everywhere you can mountain bike. Even with the dirt bike restriction it still opens allot of land for hunting, as far as accessibility.

Not true. On National Forest they are prohibited on roads and trails closed to motorized vehicles. At least in Montana. Don't care about Utah. mtmuley

 

[Chadwick91]

Yes they are prohibited on trails, prohibiting motors. Dirt bike trail is open to dirt bikes... a motorized vehicle... what I said was ebikes are allowed on main roads, atv roads, and dirt bike trails. Not hiking trails.

 

[Chingon]

All those arguing that this gives unfair advantage to those willing to spend money/time - should we also push to ban horses/mules/llamas/goats? Those make it much easier to set up camp deeper in and pack out meat without as much effort. Also, hiring experienced guides gives much more advantage than a mountain bike with a little zip.

I say ban caffeine and electrolyte salts as well since they can give you a performance advantage.

I'm coming around to the idea that E-bikes are in their own league and therefore deserve specific legislation. USFS and Fish and Game close various paths for various reasons - e-bikes might not always affect the reason for the closure. Same with horses, atv's, etc.

 

[Deleted member 40728]

It’s an E-bike!!! It can stick to everything that allows a motor. Hiking trails and mountain bike trails need to remain strictly that. Feel free to ride your e-bike down the road along with everything else that is motorized.

If we are going to start disregarding the “E” preceding bike then I’m all for disregarding the “non” that precedes resident when it comes to applications.

 

[Wildabeest]

From what I've seen in most states you are good to ride your e-bike on everything down to a dirt bike trail, Utah let's you have them everywhere you can mountain bike. Even with the dirt bike restriction it still opens allot of land for hunting, as far as accessibility.

State of UT only regulates and sets policy for state lands, not BLM or FS lands.

I was out hiking yesterday in Wasatch National Forest and encountered two pairs of shed hunters, all on ebikes, in an area where I seldom run into people because it’s a pretty steep straight line climb up a utility clearing. I guess they didn’t get the memo.

 

[Straight Arrow]

State of UT only regulates and sets policy for state lands, not BLM or FS lands.

I was out hiking yesterday in Wasatch National Forest and encountered two pairs of shed hunters, all on ebikes, in an area where I seldom run into people because it’s a pretty steep straight line climb up a utility clearing. I guess they didn’t get the memo.

Rules are one thing ... enforcement is a whole 'nother thing!

 

[Nameless Range]

Rules are one thing ... enforcement is a whole 'nother thing!

A former head of Fish and game law enforcement I know often quotes Abraham Lincoln:

“Laws without enforcement are just good advice.”