Fixing social security

[Forkyfinder]

I think a lot of the disagreement between Buzz and Alpine and their respective viewpoints held by many others ultimately comes back to basic psychology. Its well known that negative experiences hold much greater weight in people’s minds and memory than ultimately more frequent positive ones.

So Alpine may cling to the highly distasteful notion of poor decision making and buying trucks, vacations, being a deadbeat, etc. And this may very well be the minority situation. It does catch headlines and some politicians’ mouths (at least on conservative sites) versus hearing about the hard working family man cut down by illness or accident. That isn’t as flashy overall.

Ultimately I am with Buzz in that society will not tolerate multitudes of homeless, elderly. Younger ones in the throes of drug abuse and poor mental health is bad enough but part of me does default to they made their bed... But sober, sound minded old folks being out on the street seems too harsh.

Is there no world left where poor choices have consequences?

If i cash out my 401k and buy some boats, vacations, guns, and other frivelous things in my 50s - do you promise to take care of me in my 60s and the rest of my life?

 

[BuzzH]

Thanks. Nope, life is going to throw curve balls at you. It's not about being fair or unfair. It just "is".

But take the widow example. It takes literally a few 10's of cents a day to put life insurance in place to cover the loss of a partner's income so that the widow doesn't have to work 2 or 3 jobs just to survive or not risk losing their home because she can't pay the mortgage. As a husband and father, why wouldn't your first priority be to take care of your family if something were to happen to you (cancer, freak accident) and they lost your income? Surely the husband/father could give up one beer a week to do that. What choice did he make? What was his plan?

Low wages may keep the husband from affording life insurance, or perhaps the premiums are much higher than a few tenths of a cent a day you claim.

Pre existing conditions, higher risk individuals typically pay more for insurance.

Nice of you to assume that the husband swills beer all night after work. Because, you know, stereotype people in lower income jobs as alcoholics who would rather get drunk than pay for life insurance.

 

[BuzzH]

Is there no world left where poor choices have consequences?

If i cash out my 401k and buy some boats, vacations, guns, and other frivelous things in my 50s - do you promise to take care of me in my 60s and the rest of my life?

What about the working class that don't have a 401 to cash out, and work for employers that don't even offer one?

 

[Treeshark]

Let’s be real here… we are starting to focus way too much on 10% true hard luck hypotheticals while ignoring the 90% of dopes that are reality.

 

[Marshian]

Is there no world left where poor choices have consequences?

If i cash out my 401k and buy some boats, vacations, guns, and other frivelous things in my 50s - do you promise to take care of me in my 60s and the rest of my life?

I guess, yes. I would promise to give you a basic level of living that will ultimately get you by. It won’t be much though, certainly nothing like you’re enjoying now. But I prefer that versus stepping over your rotting corpse or explaining to my kid why an extremely elderly man is gonna spend the night on. a sidewalk in winter. And will do this on my way to a Hawaii winter vacation, as I’ve been blessed to be exceedingly fortunate so I’m ok to give a bit back. It’s worth it to me.

 

[Treeshark]

What about the working class that don't have a 401 to cash out

Barring some sort of physical or intellectual disability, there has never been a time of more job opportunity/upward mobility in my lifetime than the past five years.

 

[Forkyfinder]

What about the working class that don't have a 401 to cash out, and work for employers that don't even offer one?

Who doesnt offer a 401k on a full time job nowadays?

 

[brymoore]

Interesting comments.

The loans were Sallie Mae if I recall correctly. But the old version of Sallie and I was paying anywhere from 8-10% interest so not exactly cheap either. I think the current loan system is criminal and there is collusion between the lenders and the universities. Universities could increase tuition by 15-20% a year and reap huge financial benefits and lenders (loan sharks to be accurate) were there to sign up the innocents walking onto campus to fund it and skim off huge returns as well. Rather than forgive student loans and place that on the backs of taxpayers, go after the lenders and universities. The working guy that went to a trade school and has no debt, or the young farmer that is starting out on their own or continuing to run the family farm shouldn't be the ones paying for the scam that is student loans. Just my opine though.

Current system is run by the government. Banks don’t lend on student loans anymore.

 

[Alpine01]

Low wages may keep the husband from affording life insurance, or perhaps the premiums are much higher than a few tenths of a cent a day you claim.

"... or perhaps the premiums are much higher than a few tens of cents a day you claim." - There fixed that for you. If you are going to quote me, at least get it right.

Pre existing conditions, higher risk individuals typically pay more for insurance.

Ok. So? How does that change the position that you should plan for your family's future, particularly if you are at higher risk?

Nice of you to assume that the husband swills beer all night after work. Because, you know, stereotype people in lower income jobs as alcoholics who would rather get drunk than pay for life insurance.

Lol - a literalist huh? Sigh .... ok:

"Surely the husband/father could give up one hotdog a week to do that ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one Starbucks a week to do that ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one bag of potato chips a week to do that ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one meal out at a restaurant a week to do that ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one soda a week to do that ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one cigar a week to do that ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one box of rifle ammo a week to do that ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one box of fishing lures a week to do that ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one ..."

Do we need to define the other 12 million fill in the blank options?

 

[BuzzH]

Barring some sort of physical or intellectual disability, there has never been a time of more job opportunity/upward mobility in my lifetime than the past five years.

Sure, but not jobs that pay enough to save for retirement, and surely not even close enough to reach the federal limit for retirement contributions.

 

[BuzzH]

Who doesnt offer a 401k on a full time job nowadays?

.gov for one.

 

[BuzzH]

"... or perhaps the premiums are much higher than a few tens of cents a day you claim." - There fixed that for you. If you are going to quote me, at least get it right.

Ok. So? How does that change the position that you should plan for your family's future, particularly if you are at higher risk?

Lol - a literalist huh? Sigh .... ok:

"Surely the husband/father could give up one hotdog a week to do that ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one Starbucks a week to do that ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one bag of potato chips a week to do that ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one meal out at a restaurant a week to do that ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one soda a week to do that ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one cigar a week to do that ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one box of rifle ammo a week to do that ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one box of fishing lures a week to do that ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one ..."
"Surely the husband/father could give up one ..."

Do we need to define the other 12 million fill in the blank options?

It wasn't by chance you said beer...your callousness toward the less fortunate has been duly noted all along.

 

[Treeshark]

Sure, but not jobs that pay enough to save for retirement, and surely not even close enough to reach the federal limit for retirement contributions.

First point, many of them do. If not, get a different (or an additional one). Go get it.

Second point- of course, but not at all what I was talking about.

 

[Forkyfinder]

.gov for one.

ah right. They offer something way better.

 

[Alpine01]

.gov for one.

.gov provide alternative options. For example, CO teachers get PERA. That whole public vs private thingy.

 

[BuzzH]

.gov provide alternative options. For example, CO teachers get PERA. That whole public vs private thingy.

You live in a bubble and fantasyland. I worked full time from 1987 to 1998 for the feds and received zero for retirement, no option to contribute to any type of retirement. I can buy back my time prior to 1989. Read again BUY BACK. I can assure you, the job I did was dangerous, horrible for my health, and killed friends and coworkers. I got nothing for retirement, other than SS contributions.

Still lots of folks working for the feds in the same boat.

Hopefully that changes and I'll be lobbying the Hill in June to make it happen.

 

[Treeshark]

no option to contribute to any type of retirement.

There is a law that prevents federal employees from contributing to private IRAs/brokerage accounts?

If so, I agree with you on this subject- that is wack.

 

[BuzzH]

ah right. They offer something way better.

Nothing is better?

FFS...

 

[BuzzH]

There is a law that prevents federal employees from contributing to private IRAs/brokerage accounts?

If so, I agree with you on this subject- that is wack.

No employer contribution, to clarify. Mtengineer seems to think that every employee has access to a employer 401 or like retirement plan, they do not.

 

[Alpine01]

It wasn't by chance you said beer...your callousness toward the less fortunate has been duly noted all along.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight .... I guess you really sussed me out on that one. Bravo!!