First year for the great outdoors

[Hem]

My biggest is 100% development on public lands.

NO unequivocally No, solar farms are not multi use. You can't hunt a solar farm, it's acres and acres of dead land behind a fence, with no end date. It's essentially the privatization of public lands.

OG has it's issues for sure, pollution, disturbance, climate change, etc. but it is consistent with multi use.

Never thought about the bottom line with solar farms and access as you state. Makes sense. But is it really that much land in the scale of things ,or simply the notion of closing off public land, any public land?

 

[Irrelevant]

That’s true, but from my experience in Montana and Wyoming, big game animals avoid wind farms much more than O&G wells.

Here in WA we have three big ones. Two of them have a shit loads of elk and allow hunting (both by permit only). One doesn't have/allow either.

 

[MTLabrador]

Here in WA we have three big ones. Two of them have a shit loads of elk and allow hunting (both by permit only). One doesn't have/allow either.

That’s interesting. I’ve worked quite a bit around Judith Gap and Shirley Basin and elk, deer, and antelope typically avoid the turbines in both places. I will admit I have always had a pretty strong bias against wind farms.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I foresee continued hoarding of lead ammunition and supplies which might lead to more copper being shot and less raptors dying of lead poisoning. And that’s a good thing. Maybe?

As others have noted earlier, expanded development of solar and wind on public lands is a major concern for me. I am not too happy with the stance of BHA on that topic.

 

[Doublecluck]

I foresee continued hoarding of lead ammunition and supplies which might lead to more copper being shot and less raptors dying of lead poisoning. And that’s a good thing. Maybe?

As others have noted earlier, expanded development of solar and wind on public lands is a major concern for me. I am not too happy with the stance of BHA on that topic.

it will be good as long as the added wind mills don’t slice and dice the benefits (raptors)

 

[Irrelevant]

That’s interesting. I’ve worked quite a bit around Judith Gap and Shirley Basin and elk, deer, and antelope typically avoid the turbines in both places. I will admit I have always had a pretty strong bias against wind farms.

I should backtrack a little. One of them has shit loads, the other has some, but mostly mule deer. The third probably has quite a few deer but again there's no access.

This in from one of the ones near me. https://fb.watch/37dZcHb_tp/

 

[Gellar]

That’s true, but from my experience in Montana and Wyoming, big game animals avoid wind farms much more than O&G wells.

I’m friends with a guy who is known very well in the National birding community who gets paid to count birds around windmills. The people who are pushing for windmills don’t want you to know what he’s finding.

 

[JLS]

I’m friends with a guy who is known very well in the National birding community who gets paid to count birds around windmills. The people who are pushing for windmills don’t want you to know what he’s finding.

Certainly a huge consideration.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Never thought about the bottom line with solar farms and access as you state. Makes sense. But is it really that much land in the scale of things ,or simply the notion of closing off public land, any public land?

I'm going to copy paste my comment from another from another thread. When I discuss the topic I'm thinking macro... but you kinda have to right? The discussion is not, can we supplement power here and there, it's how do we swap off of fossil fuels.

----------------------------------------------------
Preface... the number of WAGS I had to take was a bit egregious.

Assumptions:
-Marcellus (dry gas play very little oil) and Bakken (Oil play very little gas) volumes from projects I have knowledge of... these aren't averaged volumes, and not necessarily indicative of the play operators might have better rock/more downspacing/ etc
-Assuming efficiencies from a brand new combined cycle gas plant and output from new wind turbines (source EIA)

OG pad = 5 acres
Turbine = .3 Acres

From what I was able to find a horizontal well is going to have about the same life as a wind turbine ~25-30 years. As you will observe O/G wells have a step decline curve so you can't compare peak rates alone and the number of wells equivalent to a OG pad is going to change every year.

So in year 1 a Marcellus pad will provide as much energy as 990 wind turbines, and will have 1/66 the physical foot print, a year 1 Bakken pad will produce as much gas as 18 turbines and have 80% the footprint.

By year 5 a Bakken pad would actually have a larger foot print. Keep in mind for the Marcellus well this is the total output (main production), while it's just the gas for a Bakken well (byproduct) which will also be producing several thousand barrels of oil.

------------------------------------
Maybe I'll do the math tomorrow, but I think realistically to get us off of OG you'd need 13-15 million acres of solar panels. So probably every inch of buildable public land in CO and WY (a lot of our public land is rock and ice ).

 

[antlerradar]

------------------------------------
Maybe I'll do the math tomorrow, but I think realistically to get us off of OG you'd need 13-15 million acres of solar panels. So probably every inch of buildable public land in CO and WY (a lot of our public land is rock and ice ).

I wonder how big the public land foot print of the mines needed to supply the rare earth metals needed to make 13 to 15 million acres of solar panels would be.

 

[Fj605]

I wonder how big the foot print of the mines needed to supply the rare earth metals needed to make 13 to 15 million acres of solar panels would be.

Large.

I'm biased about the topic of energy development on public land because oil and gas gave me a career. However, after seeing wind farms spring up around my parent's farm in Iowa, I can say that nothing ruins a horizon like a hundred windmills.

I'm not in favor of any energy development on public land. The above grade infrastructure is an eyesore and the subsurface minerals should be kept as strategic reserve, in my opinion. I imagine there will be targeted efforts to ban fossil fuel and mining but allow "renewable".

Widespread wind and solar are not the solution. The solution is to reduce consumption. Different topic for a different thread.

 

[Pucky Freak]

Legislatively, I’d guess not a whole lot. There is a delicate tilt of power towards D’s in the Senate which is no climate to push much of any progressive agenda through without springing up a defector or two to scuttle a bill.

No matter who was elected I see public land hunters’ lot continuing to deteriorate on the whole because these are such low-priority issues compared to what most voters care about.

Lots of “freebies” given out lately with ongoing COVID relief - we will all pay for this big time in years to come as the national credit card eventually gets maxed out. I predict GAOA is reversed within 6 years.

The biggest impact may have happened already with fear of what-ifs, likely close to zero federal laws will change related to guns and ammo, but the items are selling like crazy - even more crowding at public gun ranges, and messes of shot-up appliances on BLM once ammo is widely available again?

 

[BuzzH]

If its a wish list to what I would like to see from this administration:

I'd like to see some significant funding for migration studies, protecting migration corridors, under/over pass funding on Interstates and highways.

I would also like this administration to kick all the free-loading user groups in the butt and get them funding all the above as well funding for easements and increasing access to public lands.

 

[Buffs35]

Neither side cares about outdoorsmen. They will both continue to take us for granted, or vilify us depending on the side.

This paired with wolf forced reintroduction, and I'm convinced the good ol days were here and gone while we fight about preference points.

 

[NDGuy]

gone while we fight about preference points.

Things keep going the way they are, hopefully there will be a point buy back program lol

 

[Gerald Martin]

I predict a feral horse czar to be appointed. It will serve two purposes. Ease overcrowding of overgrazed range land and eliminate a potential 2024 political opponent.

 

[hank4elk]

Not real fond of large scale messes on public lands. Of any kind.
I want to see village size powerplants and home scale systems that are affordable.
Less useless crap that uses power would be good.

 

[dcopas78]

Not real fond of large scale messes on public lands. Of any kind.
I want to see village size powerplants and home scale systems that are affordable.
Less useless crap that uses power would be good.

And to that affect, there are many landfills out there just burning off their methane instead of running waste-to-energy plants. The town I work for has a very large landfill within it's incorporated limits. The village also manages it's own energy infrastructure and has a contract with Duke Energy to purchase electric which we then resale to our residents. Since we manage our infrastructure, our residents get very cheap rates.

In 2012, the village was approached by the landfill group about putting in a energy plant which would have supplied all of the towns electric, as well as allowing the landfill to score brownie points with the EPA by having a much better system for managing their gas over the traditional burnoff flares. It would have supplied power for at least 90 years, but likely much longer than that considering the landfill owns nearly 1600 acres for expansion.

Unfortunately, the village would have been operating a $25 million dollar plant for at least 20 years before it would have even started to generate capital for improvements to keep it running. The village would have had to do an immediate rate increase just to provide basic maintenance and operating monies. It ended up being much cheaper for the town to continue to buy from Duke. There was absolutely no federal grant funding to help out with the costs for this type of project at the time. A 50-50 match, reducing our investment cost to $12.5 million would have made it a reality, and we wouldn't have relied any on the outside power grid. We could have possibly even sold power back to the grid as the landfill expanded, but the original investment without financial help was just too burdensome. Very unfortunate this didn't happen.

EDIT: Tying this back in to the original post, it sure would be nice to see funding be available to invest in all kinds of alternate energy sources if they are truly working toward cutting down the use of oil and gas. Paint with a broad brush instead of a fine brush.

 

[mevertsen]

Green energy.

Wind and solar farms and more lithium mines. One was just approved for Thacker pass in Nevada 031. That ore body goes to the Oregon border along the top of the Montana range what I understand. Large amounts of bighorn and bird habitat.

Solar is growing like crazy in Nevada. A lot on private, but that will impact winter range and other areas of private which wildlife depends on for survival.

Horses. I see an end or even greater reduction in the removal of feral horses from public land. This is also a big concern in the area I live and hunt. Not sure why feral horses seem to take precedence over Nevada natives of mule deer, bighorn sheep and antelope.

 

[hank4elk]

NM is spewing tons of methane that should be captured and used with clean technology,or plug the damn holes. Lot's of jobs in the transfer to future energy sources while solving some of the problems caused by O&G/Coal.

There are millions of acres of just plain desert wastelands in southern NM,AZ,TX,etc to house solar fields/wind, with minimal wildlife impacts. For large scale production.
We now have a wind field going up between me and AZ border on BLM. Not the best place in my opine. I won't see it from here,but it will impact wildlife.

20 years ago there was options on small onsite,solar,wind plants that would power hundreds,economy wise. Size of container. With recent improvements on efficiency these should be real reasonable by now......but no.They are no where to be found. Closeted.
Same with all the alternative energy options , 100mpg vehicles, developed in last 100 years.Closeted, by the powers that be.
No infratructure/grid and jobs programs for ex-coal miners and oil field hands.Steel mill workers.Clean water for Detroit nor hundreds of towns. No new clean refineries in 40 years. All DOABLE. The list is endless.

Closeted. Til a few can make a damn buck,or forgotten.
Not one politician has followed thru since the 60's really. Their all talk,for the damn buck.

I'm glad I live where I do and am 66. I've seen a few things. I just want to live in a good place with good water and good views. All the more justification to get away from people too.