First-hand experiences of women hunters

[Cornell2012]

We've had a handful of threads pop up about how women are treated differently by the hunting community. Here is an article with some first hand accounts of how women have experienced hunting.

The Sportsman

Journalism, opinion and stories from the sporting life. Occasionally cavalier, always independent. Your guide to classic pursuits, skills, and culture. Free to read, but subscriptions appreciated. Click to read The Sportsman, by Ben Shadley, a Substack publication with thousands of readers.

brshadley-sporting-report.com

I'd like to hear reactions to the article or even stories of your own. I think this is an important topic that hunters need to address, and we've done a lackluster job so far.

Ground rules:

1. Personal opinions, experiences, and critiques are welcome, but please stay on topic.
2. Respect others. No personal attacks.
3. If you can't abide by #1 and #2, refrain from posting.
4. Off-season discussions seem to have a tendency to devolve and/or go off the rails. Expect moderators to enforce #1 and #2.

 

[Hydrophilic]

It must be incredibly frustrating and honestly I hadn't thought about some of those perspectives.
Would love to see more articles like this on high traffic hunting websites.

 

[MarvB]

Interesting article, thanks for sharing. I tend to get pretty irritated at how women are treated by some not only in the hunting community but in the outdoors in general. Like a woman who can hold their own in the woods, at a range, or just with general outdoor skills is an anomaly of some sort. As a single parent who raised three girls who are all very comfortable in the outdoors as well as in their own skin I just don’t get the double standard still in this era. Growing up all three could do equal justice to a prom dress or a set of cammo, and none gave either a second thought or made a deal out of it. Two are avid hunters, the third would be but has no time in the fall due to being in college in a basketball scholarship. I’ve watched each get pissed at gun counters being asked if they want to see the “pink gun” when they’ve likely out more time in behind a scope then the a-hole behind the register. None are afraid to get their hands bloody and have long grown tired of “don’t break a nail” comments from the guys that don’t know them. Plus all three handle firearms with more respect for safety then most adult males I’ve been around. Many men can be flat out tools at times and its subtraction by addition...the more you add around women the worse it can get.

 

[Sytes]

I've heard little from female outdoor junkies regarding such though the stigma seems to be present.
It's simply out hunting, fishing, packing, canoe camping, etc... all activities where mutual respect is common place.
I've enjoyed company with more experienced and less... speaking specifically gender based.

What gets annoying are the stories I often wonder how much is perceived thus must be reality. I've had disagreements over camp locations (example) between male and female and it's treated as such with open minds. However, the stigma leans towards a disagreement must be because of age, gender, etc reason and not simply a human disagreement. Maybe it's just that! I shouldn't need to dance on eggshells because of a person's gender, race, age, etc.
The obvious chip on shoulder types have their arrogance to over-compensate for esteem issues though, our adventures tend to venture separately. I'm not interested in "friends" of this nature and I can say the same for race, gender, and (or) age, where people push their agenda on others.
It doesn't make for enjoyable adventures. Maybe we're just lucky to have the friends we have... I'll take luck any day.

Interesting article and some hardpressed situations. Glad chit mentioned is not part of our camp.

BTW, Brene Brown's Daring Greatly is a YouTube I shared here on HT... her awesome quote from Theodore Roosevelt is life stirring. She's an incredible motivational speaker.

A Difficult Conversation

Both of them interviewing a minority when BLM movement is in full swings has me suspect. I bet it ain't no accident. mtmuley

www.hunttalk.com

Another key direct quote of Brene Brown;

“What’s the greater risk? Letting go of what people think–or letting go of how I feel, what I believe, and who I am?”

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

I worked in the outdoor industry for many years. Mostly whitewater and some fishing. I attended a guide school mostly for the fun of it but I did learn quite a bit. There was women in my graduating class at guide school and women working along side me at every guide job I had all of which were treated as well respected peers. So I find this all to be semi-nonsense or I just happened to work with 100s of the greatest and most respectful men on the planet during those years. I say semi-nonsense because I'm sure that stuff happens I know this because some of it has happened to me to.

I learned how to run class V rapids from an instructor who was a woman. Leah was awesome, but was she a bad ass cause she worked as the lead instructor on the New River and Gauley river in West Virginia? No she wasn't she was just another person out in the world earning a living doing what she is good at. Her position was an incredibly important one as she trains people to run tourists that have zero clue what they are doing and some who don't even speak english down rivers that you can die in. According to the narrative of the essay most men think she should be disqualified from that position based on the fact she is woman, but yet there she was teaching me how to read a class V rapid depending on water levels named lower Keeney.

Does the old guard and the bro's exist? Yes they do and they always have, but they are buttholes to pretty much everyone even eachother its not inclusive. I know a lot of them I call them meatheads.

Finally my wife works in the world of water in southeast Idaho. Water here is like gold. She is in a workforce full of men on boards, committees, and sub-committees. Yet she thrives and is sought after for advice and major decisions by multiple boards and committees that affect 1000s of people on a daily basis. How did she get there? She worked hard and mastered her craft just like Leah the whitewater instructor. No hand outs, no being "in" with the right people, no back handed deals. Just hard work. Where Leah is and and where my wife is can be accomplished by anyone if they just want it bad enough and work. Somewhere someone along your path is gonna wanna hold you back or put you down and hinder you wether its a woman in the outdoor world just trying to hunt like any other hunter or a man who is a novice fly fisherman on a blue ribbon stream peak hatch. Deal with it and move on nobody wants to hear about your plight atleast not me. I wanna hear about how you overcome and acquired success.

 

[MTelkHuntress]

I liked reading all the different anecdotes in the article. I could identify with some of them and others were an interesting perspective.
I've had a few unpleasant encounters in the field, but I try my best to avoid other hunters to begin with anyway. I was once told by an elk hunter while archery hunting that he didnt believe women should really hunt. Maybe he was afraid of competition.
I've gotten asked if I actually hunt quite a few times and it used to annoy me. I understand why I get asked that question but lots of women are passionate about hunting.

I've never had an experience that would have tried to stop me from hunting (cultural ones but not gender related ones) and enjoying the outdoors.
The article mentioned women on social media that post ridiculous pictures of themselves outdoors. Part of me gets annoyed that those may be the image of women in the outdoors but I realize they post those images for likes and clout. Hopefully women in the outdoors is seen as more diverse.

 

[DouglasR]

Pretty sure I’ve experienced most of the gripes in this article, but as a boy.
I’m 5’10 ish and drift between 150-160lbs.
Field and stream doesn’t carry pants in my size.
my second year hunting I wore pants from the children’s section.
I think that’s called economics
The guy behind the gun counter who I purchased a rifle from a couple weeks ago was a total weirdo with a bunch of pins about how he believes in aliens clipped to his name tag.
he didn’t offer me a ton of help.

this is controversial to say, but in reality I’m pretty sure women, specifically white women experience more “privilege” than any other group in society,
Quit complaining and thinking you’re special.
go do you, girls.

 

[DouglasR]

Also, as a lifelong loser, sometimes I’m intimidated by pretty women and get all nervous and tounge tied around them.
so when Matt from Oregon’s sitting there with his stage 10 smoke show and I’m not making eye contact with her, it’s not her, it’s me and it’s not meant as disrespect.

 

[DouglasR]

*white women, specifically wealthy white women seem to be quickly losing their privilege.
I wonder how this article would’ve read if it was a female poc holding up the giraffes heart?
Would the article even be written?

Trophy hunter slammed for posing with bloody HEART from giraffe she shot

A TROPHY hunter posed with a bloody giraffe heart which was cut out of the beast she shot. Merelize Van Der Merwe, 32, infuriated campaigners by sharing the photo of her “perfect” Valen…

www.thesun.co.uk

 

[F250]

I have some experience with female hunters. My wife hunts and is my favorite hunting partner. She is 5'2" and wears some equestrian gear, hiking/mountain gear, and a bit of "hunting" gear that fits for her hunting needs. We have many female friends that hunt. I have mentored many woman and younger girls in the field. I have been an instructor for Becoming an Outdoor Woman. During the course of my career I interacted with many woman hunting and fishing. My patrol area bordered Quebec. The French-Canadian culture leans heavily to woman in the outdoors. Many times I would encounter groups of woman or woman alone ice fishing and open water fishing. My wife has an absolute meltdown if she see's the TV hunting ladies posed with their hair and makeup looking like they are headed out on a date !! I find that older hunters have a more difficult time accepting woman hunters than younger guys. I have noted that woman attending sportsman clubs or outdoor shows are certainly treated differently by industry males. Yes the "pretty" ladies snag all the attention. The "average" looking lady has to work hard to get answers to questions or make their opinions known.

 

[diamond hitch]

The uniqueness of women hunters is in their rarity. I think one of the reasons My wife married me was that I was willing to take her along. My daughter still hunts with me when she can. I never expected less of them in the field because of their sex.

Their handicap? Likely their build and size but no more than a small guy with a slight build. Imagining a slight women in the hundred pound range packing out a bull is hard but then again what I could do 30 years ago compared to now is also a challenge.

I rarely see anyone in the field and a woman hunting is extremely rare yet in the last few years I have seen a couple. Admirable for them to have stepped beyond their peers as well as the stereotypes males have put on them. Because they are so few boot choices are quite limited as well as clothing. As I did with my kids - we made do with what was out there. Stylish ? - not really but comfortable and warm.

All I can say is learn from who you can. Make do with what is affordable and available and follow your dreams. Society sucks. You were never going to please them anyway.

 

[1_pointer]

Female hunter is somewhat equivalent, IMO, to male nurse. In neither case should the sex of the person matter, but to too many is apparently does as it's part of the name.

 

[Westelker]

My wife has been my favorite hunting partner for over thirty years. She's great with binoculars, knows when not to talk and by far a better shot than I and knows her shooting ability. Her hunting skills, knowledge, patience and persistence far out weight her lesser physical ability. She has packed out many elk in good and bad weather and has NEVER complained.

Now talk about how she has been treated: A few years ago on an Atlantic crossing while at dinner, sharing a four top with a couple from New York city we were discussing what we all did for fun, hobbies, the typical "small talk." When we said that we loved big game hunting antelope, deer and especially elk, the lady remarked, "You actually shoot those poor animals"? My wife said, "How else you going to eat them"? Then the lady went ballistic, she remarked loudly "You actually eat them, YOU actually eat them"? We tried to explain the conservation aspect of hunting big game to no prevail in addition to the benefits of eating wild game meat...that just made it worse. End of our conversation!! We enjoyed our dinner, but I don't think they did.

 

[Hunting Wife]

I'd be curious to hear of the examples of privileges white women experience....a bulleted list would be fine.

Some interesting perspectives in the article. Some I am familiar with from my own personal experience, others I can not relate to. I think this topic is very nuanced. Obviously not all women feel the same on every point. I've posted some of this stuff before, but since it's relevant subject matter I'll post it again.

I was never encouraged to hunt, though it was just a foregone conclusion that my brothers would. I didn't take hunter's safety as a kid, but the boys took it as soon as they were old enough. My dad did start taking me shooting from the time I started kindergarten and I am thankful for that. I don't know why hunting was different. Now that we are all grown up, I'm the only one that hunts.

In my adult life, I've been very lucky to have met my husband and his family who have been beyond supportive in teaching me how to hunt. Two of the biggest influences are/were that older white guy demographic. I've also been extremely lucky to have great men around me that have been supportive, patient, generous with their time and knowledge both professionally and with regards to hunting (which for me have significant overlap). Terminology like "pale, male and stale" really irritates me. You can't make your point about being judged by your race/gender by doing the same damn thing. It pisses me off to see these guys bashed in the media all the time just because of their demographic. Some of my biggest allies belong to that same demographic, and all that does is make them want to quit trying and that's definitely not what we need.

All that said, I have certainly experienced some things that I perceive as being because of my gender. I still distinctly remember walking into a sporting goods store in Bozeman to buy a gun. I had done my research, already been around town to several shops to handle and price check. This store had the gun I wanted at the best price. The guy behind the counter pulled every gun out except the one I wanted and was almost aggressive in his assertion that that was not the right gun for me. In the end, I walked out, drove across town and paid more to get the gun I wanted. Even when shopping for guns with my husband, I would say 80% of the time the salesperson will try to hand the gun to him instead of me, even if I'm the one that asked to look at it. Hunting Husband's general response is to stand there with hands in pockets and nod in my direction, which I find kind of comical in the moment. In the grand scheme of things in my life, I'm not losing sleep over this one. I suspect the reality is gun counter folks still don't see a lot of women shopping for guns for themselves so whatever. Eventually it will be more normal...this stuff doesn't just happen over night.

I do admit to not being more involved in sportmen's groups because of the weird dynamics that tend to happen between the women and the men. From my experience: The groups that draw a younger demographic have an almost "frat" vibe, the cute women are fawned over, the older/less "attractive" (lacking a better term here) are invisible. Few women of either group are treated like a peer. The groups drawing an older demographic tend to be dominated by the classic good ole boys that aren't really interested in what the women have to say. Neither is super appealing. I'll donate my money to the cause, but I don't go to events anymore for the most part. But I also don't find women's only chapters all that appealing either, because I don't want to be a "woman hunter". I find a lot of their focus or content to be sort of remedial, and I feel even more segregated if that makes any sense. I know, I confuse myself here. Clearly it's complicated. I don't know what I'm looking for or where I fit in but I know I haven't found it yet.

I do feel like the Instagram selfie "huntress" with no actual hunting content is detrimental to women being taken seriously in the hunting world. Focusing on looks rather than skills is unhelpful no matter who is putting it out there. Sure, be cute but put out some substantive content and not just selfies please.

I can't say I've ever had an overtly negative experience in the field while hunting, but I also tend to avoid other hunters as a general practice. I've had a couple of times either walking back to or leaving from the truck where I've been gawked at. I generally attribute it to being a novelty. There have been one or two however that stared for kind of a creepy amount of time and I did have a momentary thought of "Is this guy going to give me trouble?" So far, they have not but I've definitely had my spidey-senses go off a time or two. For the most part though, when someone is a straight-up ass or pulls some dick move out there, I usually just assume it's who they are and they would do it to anyone. It happens when I'm alone, and it happens when Hunting Husband and I are together, and I have so far never perceived it happening because I'm a woman.

On two occasions that I have killed what many would consider "nice" animals, we've run into people on the pack out or at the truck and both times the other party ooh'd and aah'd over the antlers then congratulated my husband on the kill. Even though I'm standing there covered in blood and carrying a pack, it never occurred to them that I killed those. That is interesting. I can't say I find it overly offensive...more amusing than anything.

I don't particularly need articles like this to make men feel uncomfortable, just aware. And I don't expect men to always know what to say or do when they are talking to or running into women out in the field or whatever because I think these topics become so charged they give people a deer-in-the-headlights reaction. It's ok if it still seems weird to run into a woman out there. Just be nice and talk hunting. That shouldn't be so hard.

 

[SoCalhunt88]

I worked in the outdoor industry for many years. Mostly whitewater and some fishing. I attended a guide school mostly for the fun of it but I did learn quite a bit. There was women in my graduating class at guide school and women working along side me at every guide job I had all of which were treated as well respected peers. So I find this all to be semi-nonsense or I just happened to work with 100s of the greatest and most respectful men on the planet during those years. I say semi-nonsense because I'm sure that stuff happens I know this because some of it has happened to me to.

I learned how to run class V rapids from an instructor who was a woman. Leah was awesome, but was she a bad ass cause she worked as the lead instructor on the New River and Gauley river in West Virginia? No she wasn't she was just another person out in the world earning a living doing what she is good at. Her position was an incredibly important one as she trains people to run tourists that have zero clue what they are doing and some who don't even speak english down rivers that you can die in. According to the narrative of the essay most men think she should be disqualified from that position based on the fact she is woman, but yet there she was teaching me how to read a class V rapid depending on water levels named lower Keeney.

Does the old guard and the bro's exist? Yes they do and they always have, but they are buttholes to pretty much everyone even eachother its not inclusive. I know a lot of them I call them meatheads.

Finally my wife works in the world of water in southeast Idaho. Water here is like gold. She is in a workforce full of men on boards, committees, and sub-committees. Yet she thrives and is sought after for advice and major decisions by multiple boards and committees that affect 1000s of people on a daily basis. How did she get there? She worked hard and mastered her craft just like Leah the whitewater instructor. No hand outs, no being "in" with the right people, no back handed deals. Just hard work. Where Leah is and and where my wife is can be accomplished by anyone if they just want it bad enough and work. Somewhere someone along your path is gonna wanna hold you back or put you down and hinder you wether its a woman in the outdoor world just trying to hunt like any other hunter or a man who is a novice fly fisherman on a blue ribbon stream peak hatch. Deal with it and move on nobody wants to hear about your plight atleast not me. I wanna hear about how you overcome and acquired success.

You bring up probably the most important point. Those old guard and bro types treat everyone like that. I’m sure I’m not the only one that avoids that type both on and off the mountain because we’ve had similar experiences to those shared in the article. Hearing some of those stories made me think of the Yelp affect. The loudest voices are the ones airing grievances.…

 

[DouglasR]

I'd be curious to hear of the examples of privileges white women experience....a bulleted list would be fine.

Some interesting perspectives in the article. Some I am familiar with from my own personal experience, others I can not relate to. I think this topic is very nuanced. Obviously not all women feel the same on every point. I've posted some of this stuff before, but since it's relevant subject matter I'll post it again.

I was never encouraged to hunt, though it was just a foregone conclusion that my brothers would. I didn't take hunter's safety as a kid, but the boys took it as soon as they were old enough. My dad did start taking me shooting from the time I started kindergarten and I am thankful for that. I don't know why hunting was different. Now that we are all grown up, I'm the only one that hunts.

In my adult life, I've been very lucky to have met my husband and his family who have been beyond supportive in teaching me how to hunt. Two of the biggest influences are/were that older white guy demographic. I've also been extremely lucky to have great men around me that have been supportive, patient, generous with their time and knowledge both professionally and with regards to hunting (which for me have significant overlap). Terminology like "pale, male and stale" really irritates me. You can't make your point about being judged by your race/gender by doing the same damn thing. It pisses me off to see these guys bashed in the media all the time just because of their demographic. Some of my biggest allies belong to that same demographic, and all that does is make them want to quit trying and that's definitely not what we need.

All that said, I have certainly experienced some things that I perceive as being because of my gender. I still distinctly remember walking into a sporting goods store in Bozeman to buy a gun. I had done my research, already been around town to several shops to handle and price check. This store had the gun I wanted at the best price. The guy behind the counter pulled every gun out except the one I wanted and was almost aggressive in his assertion that that was not the right gun for me. In the end, I walked out, drove across town and paid more to get the gun I wanted. Even when shopping for guns with my husband, I would say 80% of the time the salesperson will try to hand the gun to him instead of me, even if I'm the one that asked to look at it. Hunting Husband's general response is to stand there with hands in pockets and nod in my direction, which I find kind of comical in the moment. In the grand scheme of things in my life, I'm not losing sleep over this one. I suspect the reality is gun counter folks still don't see a lot of women shopping for guns for themselves so whatever. Eventually it will be more normal...this stuff doesn't just happen over night.

I do admit to not being more involved in sportmen's groups because of the weird dynamics that tend to happen between the women and the men. From my experience: The groups that draw a younger demographic have an almost "frat" vibe, the cute women are fawned over, the older/less "attractive" (lacking a better term here) are invisible. Few women of either group are treated like a peer. The groups drawing an older demographic tend to be dominated by the classic good ole boys that aren't really interested in what the women have to say. Neither is super appealing. I'll donate my money to the cause, but I don't go to events anymore for the most part. But I also don't find women's only chapters all that appealing either, because I don't want to be a "woman hunter". I find a lot of their focus or content to be sort of remedial, and I feel even more segregated if that makes any sense. I know, I confuse myself here. Clearly it's complicated. I don't know what I'm looking for or where I fit in but I know I haven't found it yet.

I do feel like the Instagram selfie "huntress" with no actual hunting content is detrimental to women being taken seriously in the hunting world. Focusing on looks rather than skills is unhelpful no matter who is putting it out there. Sure, be cute but put out some substantive content and not just selfies please.

I can't say I've ever had an overtly negative experience in the field while hunting, but I also tend to avoid other hunters as a general practice. I've had a couple of times either walking back to or leaving from the truck where I've been gawked at. I generally attribute it to being a novelty. There have been one or two however that stared for kind of a creepy amount of time and I did have a momentary thought of "Is this guy going to give me trouble?" So far, they have not but I've definitely had my spidey-senses go off a time or two. For the most part though, when someone is a straight-up ass or pulls some dick move out there, I usually just assume it's who they are and they would do it to anyone. It happens when I'm alone, and it happens when Hunting Husband and I are together, and I have so far never perceived it happening because I'm a woman.

On two occasions that I have killed what many would consider "nice" animals, we've run into people on the pack out or at the truck and both times the other party ooh'd and aah'd over the antlers then congratulated my husband on the kill. Even though I'm standing there covered in blood and carrying a pack, it never occurred to them that I killed those. That is interesting. I can't say I find it overly offensive...more amusing than anything.

I don't particularly need articles like this to make men feel uncomfortable, just aware. And I don't expect men to always know what to say or do when they are talking to or running into women out in the field or whatever because I think these topics become so charged they give people a deer-in-the-headlights reaction. It's ok if it still seems weird to run into a woman out there. Just be nice and talk hunting. That shouldn't be so hard.

1. Men can’t punch you in the face
2. Until recently you couldn’t be drafted.

 

[wytex]

DouglasR give me a break.

 

[Hunting Wife]

1. Men can’t punch you in the face
2. Until recently you couldn’t be drafted.

Neither specific to white women.
Neither a “privilege”.
Try again.

 

[Sytes]

“Cassie and I enjoyed the next day catching beautiful fish on the first dry-fly day of the year! She said she would have believed the guides and gone somewhere else if I hadn't stood up to them. And it's true...I work for the BLM, but I don't work in recreation and I definitely don't have the authority to pull someone's SRP! But they don't know that, and it doesn't excuse their selfish behavior. ~ McKay, Wyoming

This, imo, is an example of perception must = reality = must be due to gender.

Didn't matter race, gender, sexual orientation, age, religion... this is more likely about two humans who wanted to minimize pressure and keep their "honey hole" theirs as much as possible. Selfish? Yes... though discrimination based on a protected class? Not imo.
Someone happens to inquire about your specific hunting honey hole you and a friend planned to hunt close to the same... I wouldn't bluntly lie such as washed out road/unable to access, though I'd likely talk up another area. Selfish? Meh, yes though not based on discriminating due to gender.

I was curious and asked my wife this morning. She shared for outdoor activity? No. Not at all.
In fact, she gets annoyed at the marketing of pink w/in camo crap that limits her women's sized clothing, in excess of men's vs simply intended camo for it's purpose.
Shared mutual experience in stores for kayak, backpacking gear, etc.

I asked if there are areas where such occurs. Her response? Lowe's and Home Depot. She shared settings whereas while shopping with me, it doesn't occur - near as often.
She said, it's not as overt as some examples shared in the article... rather men overly sharing.

She also shared her experience while seeking a finger extension for her new Sig 365 carry gun. However, she also shared it was a toss up whether due to gender or flat out, her naive description for the item she wanted presented to a salesperson evaluating a human's experience with such. She chalked it up as rookie question bolsters a salesperson desire to share their experience.

Meh, I know it occurs. There's enough self esteem issues w/in the human race, chips on shoulders to bolster such... hense the need for protected classes.

I believe an author catering to such will certainly find enough people to support her intentional desired article outcome. Good side? Raises awareness.

 

[MarvB]

DouglasR if that’s your bullet list I think you need to go back to why you may perceive yourself as a loser? I’ve taken a shot or two to the face in my lifetime and never was rewarded the benefit of it! You speak of white woman privilege? Well I can tell you that the heavily makeup clad huntresses on tv and social media probably don’t represent their side any more than bubba and the boys represent our ( the male ) side, at least I hope for both! My girls were raised by a father who (showing my age here) told them about how the male world was flipped on its ear by both Title IX and the EEOA back in the 70s. What it was like to be in college pursuing jobs in forestry and wildlife and NOT get them because I was a male and the govt thought we had to catch up to our wrongdoings overnight! Their response? “That’s bullshit Dad, it shouldn’t matter if your male OR female!” How they were raised, and I’m proud of it. I don’t think anyone should get a thing more or less because of their plumbing, what they should get is the respect from those around them to do and chose as they wish!