First-hand experiences of women hunters

[Nameless Range]

I'd be curious to hear of the examples of privileges white women experience....a bulleted list would be fine.

Some interesting perspectives in the article. Some I am familiar with from my own personal experience, others I can not relate to. I think this topic is very nuanced. Obviously not all women feel the same on every point. I've posted some of this stuff before, but since it's relevant subject matter I'll post it again.

I was never encouraged to hunt, though it was just a foregone conclusion that my brothers would. I didn't take hunter's safety as a kid, but the boys took it as soon as they were old enough. My dad did start taking me shooting from the time I started kindergarten and I am thankful for that. I don't know why hunting was different. Now that we are all grown up, I'm the only one that hunts.

In my adult life, I've been very lucky to have met my husband and his family who have been beyond supportive in teaching me how to hunt. Two of the biggest influences are/were that older white guy demographic. I've also been extremely lucky to have great men around me that have been supportive, patient, generous with their time and knowledge both professionally and with regards to hunting (which for me have significant overlap). Terminology like "pale, male and stale" really irritates me. You can't make your point about being judged by your race/gender by doing the same damn thing. It pisses me off to see these guys bashed in the media all the time just because of their demographic. Some of my biggest allies belong to that same demographic, and all that does is make them want to quit trying and that's definitely not what we need.

All that said, I have certainly experienced some things that I perceive as being because of my gender. I still distinctly remember walking into a sporting goods store in Bozeman to buy a gun. I had done my research, already been around town to several shops to handle and price check. This store had the gun I wanted at the best price. The guy behind the counter pulled every gun out except the one I wanted and was almost aggressive in his assertion that that was not the right gun for me. In the end, I walked out, drove across town and paid more to get the gun I wanted. Even when shopping for guns with my husband, I would say 80% of the time the salesperson will try to hand the gun to him instead of me, even if I'm the one that asked to look at it. Hunting Husband's general response is to stand there with hands in pockets and nod in my direction, which I find kind of comical in the moment. In the grand scheme of things in my life, I'm not losing sleep over this one. I suspect the reality is gun counter folks still don't see a lot of women shopping for guns for themselves so whatever. Eventually it will be more normal...this stuff doesn't just happen over night.

I do admit to not being more involved in sportmen's groups because of the weird dynamics that tend to happen between the women and the men. From my experience: The groups that draw a younger demographic have an almost "frat" vibe, the cute women are fawned over, the older/less "attractive" (lacking a better term here) are invisible. Few women of either group are treated like a peer. The groups drawing an older demographic tend to be dominated by the classic good ole boys that aren't really interested in what the women have to say. Neither is super appealing. I'll donate my money to the cause, but I don't go to events anymore for the most part. But I also don't find women's only chapters all that appealing either, because I don't want to be a "woman hunter". I find a lot of their focus or content to be sort of remedial, and I feel even more segregated if that makes any sense. I know, I confuse myself here. Clearly it's complicated. I don't know what I'm looking for or where I fit in but I know I haven't found it yet.

I do feel like the Instagram selfie "huntress" with no actual hunting content is detrimental to women being taken seriously in the hunting world. Focusing on looks rather than skills is unhelpful no matter who is putting it out there. Sure, be cute but put out some substantive content and not just selfies please.

I can't say I've ever had an overtly negative experience in the field while hunting, but I also tend to avoid other hunters as a general practice. I've had a couple of times either walking back to or leaving from the truck where I've been gawked at. I generally attribute it to being a novelty. There have been one or two however that stared for kind of a creepy amount of time and I did have a momentary thought of "Is this guy going to give me trouble?" So far, they have not but I've definitely had my spidey-senses go off a time or two. For the most part though, when someone is a straight-up ass or pulls some dick move out there, I usually just assume it's who they are and they would do it to anyone. It happens when I'm alone, and it happens when Hunting Husband and I are together, and I have so far never perceived it happening because I'm a woman.

On two occasions that I have killed what many would consider "nice" animals, we've run into people on the pack out or at the truck and both times the other party ooh'd and aah'd over the antlers then congratulated my husband on the kill. Even though I'm standing there covered in blood and carrying a pack, it never occurred to them that I killed those. That is interesting. I can't say I find it overly offensive...more amusing than anything.

I don't particularly need articles like this to make men feel uncomfortable, just aware. And I don't expect men to always know what to say or do when they are talking to or running into women out in the field or whatever because I think these topics become so charged they give people a deer-in-the-headlights reaction. It's ok if it still seems weird to run into a woman out there. Just be nice and talk hunting. That shouldn't be so hard.

I read the article, which was long, and started typing but erased it because it just didn't hit right. I'll admit the article didn't exactly hit right for me either. Probably says more about me than the article.

I appreciate this take by @Hunting Wife , as it not only says the things I can't say with authority better than I could have, it helps me understand.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Some cringy stories in that article... Some cringy comments in this thread...

I filed away a few "don't s" and hope I'll remember them. I know very few women who are into hunting and fishing, but hope I'll meet more.

 

[Randi]

1. Men can’t punch you in the face
2. Until recently you couldn’t be drafted.

unless something has happened in the last 24 hours I dont know about, we still can not be drafted

and

the statistics on spousal abuse might surprise you

back to this thread:

Hunting Wife has eloquently, throughly and intelligently responded to the OP

I personally find sexism more in Texas than in Alaska and at Rodeos more than hunting.

We did find it funny when we ( 4 females ) decided to canoe the Yukon river alone. At least a dozen different men ask us in one way or another. You are doing this without a man going with you ?

 

[Dougfirtree]

1. Men can’t punch you in the face
2. Until recently you couldn’t be drafted.

Been punched in the face a few times? I'm starting to see why...

 

[longbow51]

I certainly think some of these experiences are valid and don't doubt them. But I do think that in this world we find ourselves in, perhaps we don't need another "let's divide ourselves into groups" based on "who is the most woke" message.

So I feel categorizations of outdoor women vs the "bros" and the "stale and pale" (of which I am one) to be tiresome and unhelpful. I get it; white man bad. As a senior executive all of my VPs just happened to be women, and they are all doing very well. And one of them shoots a pink pistol, even though I offered to give her a Sig P365.

My wife hunts and has always been treated well but then I don't hang out with a bunch of jerks either. Most of their wives hunt too. My elk hunting mentor took my wife under his wing; taught her to track, etc., and he was as John Wayne as it gets.

I have female friends who hunt and their husbands don't. Although one in particular is a marvelously inventive cook of whatever his wife brings home.

So, let's all just play well together. As human beings. Hunters can't afford to be divided.

 

[MTLabrador]

Maybe because I grew up in Montana and maybe because I'm on the younger side of the age spectrum, but I've always known quite a few female hunters. I knew lots of girls growing up that hunted with the family every year, my girlfriend hunts (she's killed a much bigger bull than I ever have) and my sister hunts. Because of the last two, I've seen and heard of some really cringey stuff.

It's funny that everyone mentions gun shopping, because that was my first thought. I went with my sister to buy a pistol once. She shoots a handgun very well, and can happily shoot my 10mm or .357 without flinching. As soon as the gun counter guy found out we were shopping for her instead of me, he brought out pink .38 specials and little blue .380s and insisted that the gun she bought, a 9mm Glock, was just too much for her to handle. I'd put serious cash down that she could outshoot the sales guy, so it was funny and irritating to watch.

 

[Bob-WY]

My wife hunts, I taught her, she just wasn't exposed growing up, to hunting or guns, a bit of fishing, but not hunting. Over the last year, she packed two elk, one that she shot. Shot, tracked, gutted and dragged a deer she shot with her bow. And she's WAY better at spotting game that I am.

Many of the stories in that article are not gender based, the guides saying road closed etc, those are just jerks, they come in every shape and size. Shooting into ducks setting into her decoys, again, just jerks.

Getting the bad advice at a store, again, I've been in stores where I knew WAY MORE than the person behind the counter, they sound like they know it all, but again, not gender.

That said, there are those out there that are guilty. When my wife and I were getting ready for our first western trip, we had to get her a new rifle (she was using a .44 mag rifle my Dad gave her - great for NH whitetails, not so good for antelope in WY!). I researched caliber based on her desires (I like doing research like that, she does't). We then hit the Harrisburg PA outdoor show where LOTS of gun vendors are there. We went to everyone, she did the talking, I stood back. There where 2 that looked past her to ask me questions about what she just said to them, one of them handed me the rifle. In both cases we just walked out. Couldn't be bothered and told them they blew it. We did the same when talking to outfitters at the show. If they ignored her, we walked.

I can't say she's ever had issue in the field, most of the time we are together. But she has shot multiple deer on her own. She is a bit nervous hunting/fishing alone, but she's also that way golfing.

Are there gender issues? ABSOLUTELY, there are a number of total idiots out there. But many of those anecdotes in the article may have been gender, but may not. When you run into a jerk, you run into a jerk, simple as that.

 

[DouglasR]

@Hunting Wife @Randi

ladies, I haven’t read you’re posts yet because I’m too embarrassed.
I made a major ass of myself here this morning and I’m sorry.

I’m just tired of all the cry baby bullshit and bitching about how evil and unfair and evil our country is.
I’m tired of “hope”
I’m tired of “make America great again”
I’m tired of “we can do better”
Could we do better?
Yes, you always can.
did bad things happen in the past?
yeah, but maybe it was just the way shit worked out.
America is awesome and I’m tired of people running her down.

moving forward,

@Cornell2012 sorry for the derailment.
From now on I’m gonna let you
GIRLS and guys solve the worlds political problems and I’ll just stick to sending it because I’m not affluent and articulate enough to express my opinions amongst you high society folks.

huntingwife you’ve always seemed really nice and I’m sorry for being such a horses ass.

 

[DouglasR]

Been punched in the face a few times? I'm starting to see why...

Given a few taken a few
let me do a hard ass impression and say something like
“There aren’t any HR departments at the asphalt plant or in the corn fields like you high society folks have.”

 

[MNElkNut]

I am bringing up a daughter who hunts and two boys who hunt so I have always followed these threads with keen interest. My daughter has not had any bad experiences yet, but that may be partly because she is fairly young and I am still mentoring her, thus with her.

I read with interest the struggles with finding women's clothing and gear. It has been somewhat of a struggle for us with my daughter (I buy her a hunting Christmas present every year) as well. But I cannot help but think there may not yet be a good enough market for women's clothing to warrant the investment. Companies are in business to make money as unfortunate as that sometimes is. I gotta believe if you are 6'9" and 325 pounds you are not happy with your selection either. What we need is for someone who has the passion to start a women's hunting clothing line! This may be one of the areas that time will sort out.

HuntingWife made a great comment about the "stale, pale, and male". Although I am not yet in that age group, it did kind of raise my hackles a little to be (almost) characterized like that. I am member of an organization that is full of those types. The one thing that I would say about them....many typically suffer from Dunning-Kruger effect and many of them are just plain horses rear ends! But they are equal opportunity discriminators and no one or project is safe from their bad ideas. But then there are a lot of great guys in that demographic that do NOT deserve that label. The author lost some credibility with that remark.

 

[hank4elk]

Let's see.
Mom & 4 sisters who I have lived hiked,fished & camped with. They just don't hunt. But accepted my endevors and the food.
My ex SO grew up in London and had never been around hunting. She is more outdoorsey than many men I know now,knowledge wise. She even went deer hunting with me a couple times. Had a hard time with the process before the table,but no one I've met has become a better layer of the table of game.
I am usually alone hunting,personally.
I have been around alot female hunters,fisherpersons,hikers,climbers,packers,etc. I'd say 3/4 of the local women hunt.
I'd have to say I'd rather be in the outdoors with many more of the females than men I've met. Better demeanor and such. Willing to learn & teach.

Men can be real dicks.

 

[rwc101]

I've heard a few stories from a female friend wanting to get into hunting. If you're a guy and think salesmen push Creedmors it seems to be on a whole new level for women. She doesn't seem to be recoil intolerant but that doesn't stop them. Not sure if it is because she's new to hunting, because she's a woman, or both but one salesman tried pretty hard to get her to leave with a $1,900 Bergara for her first rifle.

 

[LuketheDog]

I really don't understand the huge uproar about the pink firearms, but I actually asked a local sales guy (who's a good guy, married, kids) about it instead of assuming he was a sexist pig. My wife asked for a pistol and he pulled out a 9mm with a pink camo grip along with a couple other black and gray ones my wife pointed out. I just had to ask him why he assumed my wife wanted to see the pink one. He said at their shop they simply sell far more of those to women than standard black or gray firearms, so when a lady comes in and he's trying to figure out ahead of time what she's likely to ask for, that's the one, he never tries to steer them into a smaller caliber though. I personally think the pink guns are kind of lame and so does my wife, although my 3 daughters looooove their pink Red Ryder that grandma bought for them, but if having a pink gun gets more women interested in shooting, who cares?

 

[Panda Bear]

I received far more grief during my college years in the large cities in the East, than I do in The Territories. But I am admittedly a large target.

Female, Indian, Hunter, Trapper, and a staunch believer that the Government is not suppose to take care of me from cradle to grave.

However, it does happen up here also, but mostly from visitors, not locals. Some hunts require Inuits to guide them. One fellow from the U.S. refused to allow me to take him out, so I scurried around and found a man to take him out. I was also propositioned once on a goat hunt and when I turned it down, I had to listen to 5 days of B.S. ( was he not handsome enough ?, did I only like other Indians ?, how about if he doubled the offer ( $ )?,) it got pretty tiring.

I find most of the rude, creepy, and suggestive comments are sex related rather than hunting related.

I would also like to mention that other females can also be very nasty to female hunters. And, I have no sympathy for those females who post pictures of themselves in string bikinis holding up a fish they caught or an animal they shot.

 

[Jc2020]

I personally haven’t dealt with or seen issues with women in hunting but I do believe it happens some and I do think there is times like this too though where it’s not a sexist thing it is a situation like this. But Myself I encourage women in hunting I take my wife all the time and my daughter as well.

I really don't understand the huge uproar about the pink firearms, but I actually asked a local sales guy (who's a good guy, married, kids) about it instead of assuming he was a sexist pig. My wife asked for a pistol and he pulled out a 9mm with a pink camo grip along with a couple other black and gray ones my wife pointed out. I just had to ask him why he assumed my wife wanted to see the pink one. He said at their shop they simply sell far more of those to women than standard black or gray firearms so when a lady comes in and he's trying to figure out ahead of time what she likely to ask for, that's the one, he never tries to steer them into a smaller caliber though. I personally think the pink guns are kind of lame and so does my wife, although my 3 daughters looooove their pink Red Ryder that grandma bought for them, but if having a pink gun gets more women interested in shooting, who cares?

 

[LuketheDog]

What gets annoying are the stories I often wonder how much is perceived thus must be reality.

I think a lot of this goes on too, seems like people are just hoping for a reason to be outraged these days...whether or not it's deservedly so.

I personally haven’t dealt with or seen issues with women in hunting but I do believe it happens some and I do think there is times like this too though where it’s not a sexist thing it is a situation like this. But Myself I encourage women in hunting I take my wife all the time and my daughter as well.

 

[Europe]

I'd be curious to hear of the examples of privileges white women experience....a bulleted list would be fine.

Some interesting perspectives in the article. Some I am familiar with from my own personal experience, others I can not relate to. I think this topic is very nuanced. Obviously not all women feel the same on every point. I've posted some of this stuff before, but since it's relevant subject matter I'll post it again.

I was never encouraged to hunt, though it was just a foregone conclusion that my brothers would. I didn't take hunter's safety as a kid, but the boys took it as soon as they were old enough. My dad did start taking me shooting from the time I started kindergarten and I am thankful for that. I don't know why hunting was different. Now that we are all grown up, I'm the only one that hunts.

In my adult life, I've been very lucky to have met my husband and his family who have been beyond supportive in teaching me how to hunt. Two of the biggest influences are/were that older white guy demographic. I've also been extremely lucky to have great men around me that have been supportive, patient, generous with their time and knowledge both professionally and with regards to hunting (which for me have significant overlap). Terminology like "pale, male and stale" really irritates me. You can't make your point about being judged by your race/gender by doing the same damn thing. It pisses me off to see these guys bashed in the media all the time just because of their demographic. Some of my biggest allies belong to that same demographic, and all that does is make them want to quit trying and that's definitely not what we need.

All that said, I have certainly experienced some things that I perceive as being because of my gender. I still distinctly remember walking into a sporting goods store in Bozeman to buy a gun. I had done my research, already been around town to several shops to handle and price check. This store had the gun I wanted at the best price. The guy behind the counter pulled every gun out except the one I wanted and was almost aggressive in his assertion that that was not the right gun for me. In the end, I walked out, drove across town and paid more to get the gun I wanted. Even when shopping for guns with my husband, I would say 80% of the time the salesperson will try to hand the gun to him instead of me, even if I'm the one that asked to look at it. Hunting Husband's general response is to stand there with hands in pockets and nod in my direction, which I find kind of comical in the moment. In the grand scheme of things in my life, I'm not losing sleep over this one. I suspect the reality is gun counter folks still don't see a lot of women shopping for guns for themselves so whatever. Eventually it will be more normal...this stuff doesn't just happen over night.

I do admit to not being more involved in sportmen's groups because of the weird dynamics that tend to happen between the women and the men. From my experience: The groups that draw a younger demographic have an almost "frat" vibe, the cute women are fawned over, the older/less "attractive" (lacking a better term here) are invisible. Few women of either group are treated like a peer. The groups drawing an older demographic tend to be dominated by the classic good ole boys that aren't really interested in what the women have to say. Neither is super appealing. I'll donate my money to the cause, but I don't go to events anymore for the most part. But I also don't find women's only chapters all that appealing either, because I don't want to be a "woman hunter". I find a lot of their focus or content to be sort of remedial, and I feel even more segregated if that makes any sense. I know, I confuse myself here. Clearly it's complicated. I don't know what I'm looking for or where I fit in but I know I haven't found it yet.

I do feel like the Instagram selfie "huntress" with no actual hunting content is detrimental to women being taken seriously in the hunting world. Focusing on looks rather than skills is unhelpful no matter who is putting it out there. Sure, be cute but put out some substantive content and not just selfies please.

I can't say I've ever had an overtly negative experience in the field while hunting, but I also tend to avoid other hunters as a general practice. I've had a couple of times either walking back to or leaving from the truck where I've been gawked at. I generally attribute it to being a novelty. There have been one or two however that stared for kind of a creepy amount of time and I did have a momentary thought of "Is this guy going to give me trouble?" So far, they have not but I've definitely had my spidey-senses go off a time or two. For the most part though, when someone is a straight-up ass or pulls some dick move out there, I usually just assume it's who they are and they would do it to anyone. It happens when I'm alone, and it happens when Hunting Husband and I are together, and I have so far never perceived it happening because I'm a woman.

On two occasions that I have killed what many would consider "nice" animals, we've run into people on the pack out or at the truck and both times the other party ooh'd and aah'd over the antlers then congratulated my husband on the kill. Even though I'm standing there covered in blood and carrying a pack, it never occurred to them that I killed those. That is interesting. I can't say I find it overly offensive...more amusing than anything.

I don't particularly need articles like this to make men feel uncomfortable, just aware. And I don't expect men to always know what to say or do when they are talking to or running into women out in the field or whatever because I think these topics become so charged they give people a deer-in-the-headlights reaction. It's ok if it still seems weird to run into a woman out there. Just be nice and talk hunting. That shouldn't be so hard.

Very nicely stated ! thank you.

Of course I have seen it, heard it, and experienced it over the years .

I actually experienced more of it during my car racing years than I ever did in the hunting world.

As has been mentioned, the nature of the discrimination varies depending on where in the world you are hunting. Surprisingly to some perhaps, the men in Latin America were far more sexist than American men, but in a different manner. They wanted to help you get on the horse, off the horse, set up the tent, etc. but it was always done in a way that seemed "gentlemanly"

The gentlemen on this forum have been very kind, thoughtful, helpful and fun and I have throughly enjoyed interacting with them. I have know some of them for many years, they were the ones that invited me to join Hunt talk and I am glad I did. Thank you gentlemen !

And the Ladies as well, wonderful group of females here as well. thank you ladies.

I openly admit that I dont understand some of the male music preferences, here on the forum, but we will save that discussion for Friday.

But----- speaking of things I dont understand in my twilight years. Mr. Potato Head is "sexist" ? Please !

 

[Hunting Wife]

To clarify a point on the firearm thing...I don’t care if I walk in and ask generally about looking for a gun if the guy hands me the pink one as an option. Not a selling point for me, but it is for others. I can simply rule that one out and move on to the other options. But when I walk in and ask to see something specific and I can see it sitting in the case, don’t hand me a bunch of other stuff and tell me I don’t know what I need, what would work better for me, yada yada. If I ask to see a Sig P220, assume I've done my homework and just show me the damn thing. I talked to my husband about this and he assured me he’s never had this experience.

I also agree that some things attributed to being gender-based either stem from some other issue (like the rookie question someone mentioned above) or are coming from equal-opportunity jerks. At the same time, there are people out there who actually try to make it quite plain that the only "problem" is that I'm female. Unsolicited comments about my looks, using diminutive words to address me (*ahem* "baby" *cough*), intentional use of vocal tones, facial expressions and body language to try to intimidate me...I assume people pulling those kinds of stunts are overtly targeting my gender specifically. Luckily, I don't get that too much and I have experienced it more at work than around hunting.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I know what I think men can do to help (if so inclined), and I don't think it requires a seismic shift. With the audience here in mind:

1. Keep taking your wives/girlfriends/sisters/daughters/friends out and teaching them.
2. Produce content that portrays women in hunting as normal. I'm not talking big 2 hour specials. I'm talking routine content that has women in it sometimes, in a capacity that they are able to also share some of their expertise in a meaningful way.
3. If you run into a woman out hunting, remain calm. Act normal. Talk hunting.

Seriously, the common thread here is to just help make women out hunting a "normal" thing. And if you are teaching, help them be skilled and capable too.

huntingwife you’ve always seemed really nice and I’m sorry for being such a horses ass.

Apology accepted. I'm not one to dwell on the past, but don't be "that guy" in the future please.

 

[beginnerhunter]

I remember this episode of Andy Griffith where he takes a date crow hunting. He tells her to cover her ears before shooting. The viewer is supposed to find this condescending since she happens to be a champion shooter, used to the sound of a shotgun, but Andy thinks she's just a dumb fragile woman. She later defeats him in a skeet competition. The show disregards any concerns about hearing protection, which is kinda funny in hindsight. This episode was filmed in 1961 I think.

 

[HSi-ESi]

My wife is a Structural Engineer (a very good one, but I may be biased). Occasionally she will need to do a site inspection. I have gone on a couple - if I am in town and need a break - or to bundle it in with a lunch trip. If the contractor does not know her, they will invariably start to address me. My response is always, talk to her, she's the engineer and I don't know s^&t about what you are building. But it's pretty consistent.

These biases exist - and I've found it is easiest for me to speak up quickly. I hope that continually doing so at least makes people think a little more about being rude. I find it a bit tiresome, so I can only think what it is to have to deal with it everyday.