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Maybe in a different thread. Not this one. This thing has been a dumpster fire from the start. I’ve used compounds and crossbows extensively and hunted with multiple disabled folks going back decades. I’ve seen many of the challenges they face. I don’t think there’s many on this thread can match my experience level here.You're welcome. Don't read too much into this question it's not a gotcha or anything. Would you support the use of thermal optics during rifle season for disabled hunters? Or maybe a disabled hunter allowed to use a scope during an otherwise primitive muzzeloader season with open sights?
Couple things to consider, the first being the original intent of archery seasons.WTF . . . seriously? What about the abilities or disabilities of the person using the weapon? The argument holds a hell of a lot of water when you consider what an able bodied person can do with a compound versus what a paraplegic could do with a crossbow.
Disabled people using crossbows in archery season isn’t a problem. Enforcement of the laws on the books in AZ apparently is. And disabled hunters losing opportunities to get out and hunt is definitely a problem.
Are you embarrassed by the amount of "hunters" who use not much less than a hang nail to abuse the system originally designed for truly disabled people? I certainly am.As a lifelong hunter, I’m truly embarrassed by this thread.
Maybe in a different thread. Not this one. This thing has been a dumpster fire from the start. I’ve used compounds and crossbows extensively and hunted with multiple disabled folks going back decades. I’ve seen many of the challenges they face. I don’t think there’s many on this thread can match my experience level here.
I’ve made posts based on all that experience - most here disagree with my position. I’ve tried to provide thoughtful perspective on this thread. Nobody has asked me a question to better understand why I’m so firmly in favor of these opportunities and why I’m so disappointed by what happened in AZ. Most want to argue and disagree rather than understand.
Per the first post, disabled hunters will no longer be able to hunt with a crossbow in Arizona. Somebody literally just posted that there wasn’t any lost opportunity here. I would have to be some kind of stupid to try and convince/argue with that kind of special.
As a lifelong hunter, I’m truly embarrassed by this thread.
P.S. I’m not a fan of the way Wisconsin currently allows everyone to use a crossbow.
I'd only this same logic could be applied to nr hunters......you have plenty of opportunities in your home state stay home
I think a vast majority do, or at least spend a majority of their time hunting their home states.I'd only this same logic could be applied to nr hunters......you have plenty of opportunities in your home state stay home
No reason to wyoming allows all archery equipment and i don't see a reason to exclude any. Especially when they allow you to hunt elk and mule deer in September with a rifle don't think allowing crossbows is hurting anything here.Then take it to your Fish and Game commission. The discussion here is crossbows in archery seasons.
Not singling you out here, but your equivalency is a little bit off. I’ll offer a different perspective based on what I’ve actually lived for everybody here.
I’ve got a front row seat to an ugly, progressive, completely debilitating disease with no known cause or cure. That meant this gun season I had to get up over an hour earlier opening morning than most everyone else to help my Dad get ready. It also meant I had to lift my Dad into the truck and take care of everything else. Then when got to our spot, it was too wet for the UTV. If we got stuck in that field, the only way he was getting out was the fire department. He missed his second deer season in over 60 years.
I mention this because it’s not just as simple as picking up a crossbow and going hunting. For a lot of folks it’s a team effort just to get somebody with a disability ready to go hunting, let alone spend hours in the woods. It’s completely exhausting for not just me but my Dad as well. We don’t talk about the fact that he has a better chance at winning the lottery than shooting a good buck, the only type of deer he’d be interested in.
Without the crossbow, he doesn’t have a chance to hunt deer at all this fall. We’re both fighting hard to keep the disease from taking more, unfortunately it’s a losing battle. Some of these disabilities take a hell of a lot more than our ability to hunt, and if some accommodations can help make things a bit better for those folks, then people need to get right. Empathy and perspective are sorely lacking these days . . .
The way it should be.can completely understand and sympathize with this situation……and so does the AZ G&F and the Commission. I was part of the committee (focus group) to decide this change, representing the Pope and Young Club. A situation like your father experiences, is why the state of Arizona has the CHAMP (challenged access/mobility permit) program. This program is for those permanently disabled, not temporary injured/disabled. Those who qualify for the CHAMP permit can still utilize any weapon system they desire, and shoot from a vehicle if needed. They even have their own hunts they can draw outside of the regular draw. It’s a great program for those who truly have a disability, like your father.
Thanks for the comment with some real numbers and your time with that groupI can completely understand and sympathize with this situation……and so does the AZ G&F and the Commission. I was part of the committee (focus group) to decide this change, representing the Pope and Young Club. A situation like your father experiences, is why the state of Arizona has the CHAMP (challenged access/mobility permit) program. This program is for those permanently disabled, not temporary injured/disabled. Those who qualify for the CHAMP permit can still utilize any weapon system they desire, and shoot from a vehicle if needed. They even have their own hunts they can draw outside of the regular draw. It’s a great program for those who truly have a disability, like your father.
What WAS occurring, more often than many think, is someone feigning an injury to be able to draw an elk permit while having never hunting (or extremely limited) with a bow and arrow. They did this because they wanted to hunt elk in rut without having to learn the skill set of shooting a hand held/drawn bow and arrow. There were actually two outfitters in the state advertising to rifle hunters with a lot of points (but not enough to draw top tier units) to apply for an archery tag and get a doctor or dentist to sign a temporary crossbow permit! Another factual stat; in 2015 the department issued 43 temporary crossbow permits for archery elk under the old system. In 2024 (9 years later) they issued over 3000! Additionally, the new OTC new archery only deer season threshold (quotas) they implemented two years ago showed interesting data. Some units that closed early due to the quota harvest being met were as high as 40% taken by crossbows. One last staggering stat based on this data is that not one OTC unit would have closed early had it not been for the percentage of crossbow harvest! That’s factual data (mandatory reporting) that is not based on emotion. This change was overdue and needed. It gives the resource a break while maintaining opportunity for those who hunt with a bow and arrow.
So does that mean the other 60 percent were taken by compound bow huntersSome units that closed early due to the quota harvest being met were as high as 40% taken by crossbows.
My guess is if you take out the compound bow harvest this would also be the case as with most things people with a agenda can make there data look how they want.One last staggering stat based on this data is that not one OTC unit would have closed early had it not been for the percentage of crossbow harvest!
That’s not on any agenda and will probably never happen for various reasons.So does that mean the other 60 percent were taken by compound bow hunters
My guess is if you take out the compound bow harvest this would also be the case as with most things people with a agenda can make there data look how they want.
Excited to see what happens over the next couple years when they same thing happens and arizona starts to restrict the compound hunters it will likely be a different discussion.
Exactly my point nothing will happen with compound regs due to the fact many would cry. Even though compounds have a similar effect on harvestThat’s not on any agenda and will probably never happen for various reasons.
Why not break up the data? didnt want to show that compounds had 59 percent of the harvest and recurve and longbows accounted for less then 1 percent And that crossbows at 40 percent are the problem?As for your first question, 60% were taken by a combination of compounds, recurves, and longbows. Arizona has essentially defined a bow and arrow as one of those three only.
Just say you like crossbowsExactly my point nothing will happen with compound regs due to the fact many would cry. Even though compounds have a similar effect on harvest
Why not break up the data? didnt want to show that compounds had 59 percent of the harvest and recurve and longbows accounted for less then 1 percent And that crossbows at 40 percent are the problem?
Because it’s not about compound vs traditional. It’s about archery vs crossbow.Exactly my point nothing will happen with compound regs due to the fact many would cry. Even though compounds have a similar effect on harvest
Why not break up the data? didnt want to show that compounds had 59 percent of the harvest and recurve and longbows accounted for less then 1 percent And that crossbows at 40 percent are the problem?