Yeah it’s like 5:1 the resident guys I know that, when they don’t draw a bull archery or rifle permit, would rather go hunt cows and spikes and deer in the elk draw units than go to western MT to hunt elk anymore
Extreme hunting pressure in region 7.
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8andcounting
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I think this would change if they couldn’t hunt deer east .
8andcounting
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The last couple years I’ve went to SW MT elk hunting and the # of rigs headed west when I leave and head east is astonishing tons of R rigs with trailers full of mule deer .
antlerradar
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Back to DFS's original topic. Hunting pressure in seven.
I think that there might have been even more people hunting buck deer in the early nineties on the Custer. This is why pressure is much worse today.
Back in the 90's there was good numbers of deer on public land, not so much now. I have spent quite a bit of time this fall looking for dead cows on the forest this fall. Not just near the roads, but back in the canyons that few ever get into. The number of deer I have seen is pathetic, there is not that much deer sign. There were times in the ninety's that I would spot 50 deer from one glassing spot in those canyons. Back then hunters filled there tags quickly and went home. Now hunters have to work much harder to fill and hunt longer to fill tags. Adds up to more pressure.
Back in the 90's it was fill your A tag and you were hunting birds the rest of he fall. Now there are doe tags, Bull elk tags, cow elk tags, and bear and lion hunting. It all adds up to more pressure. (for at least this year and next year doe tags will not be valid on public land. I think this is going to be a step in the right direction, maybe a small step and there is going to be pressure to change back when the two years is up.)
Back in the 90's almost no one was archery hunting, now with archery elk, archery season is almost as busy as rifle season.
The landscape has changed. With the fires this fall nearly 100 percent of the Custer has burned since 2000. Back in the 90's there was timber everywhere and it hid both the deer and the hunters. Now you notice the hunters much more and the deer have no where to hide.
I think that there might have been even more people hunting buck deer in the early nineties on the Custer. This is why pressure is much worse today.
Back in the 90's there was good numbers of deer on public land, not so much now. I have spent quite a bit of time this fall looking for dead cows on the forest this fall. Not just near the roads, but back in the canyons that few ever get into. The number of deer I have seen is pathetic, there is not that much deer sign. There were times in the ninety's that I would spot 50 deer from one glassing spot in those canyons. Back then hunters filled there tags quickly and went home. Now hunters have to work much harder to fill and hunt longer to fill tags. Adds up to more pressure.
Back in the 90's it was fill your A tag and you were hunting birds the rest of he fall. Now there are doe tags, Bull elk tags, cow elk tags, and bear and lion hunting. It all adds up to more pressure. (for at least this year and next year doe tags will not be valid on public land. I think this is going to be a step in the right direction, maybe a small step and there is going to be pressure to change back when the two years is up.)
Back in the 90's almost no one was archery hunting, now with archery elk, archery season is almost as busy as rifle season.
The landscape has changed. With the fires this fall nearly 100 percent of the Custer has burned since 2000. Back in the 90's there was timber everywhere and it hid both the deer and the hunters. Now you notice the hunters much more and the deer have no where to hide.
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Don't go to r7, got it. Sounds like all the stakeholders and their shifting wants, needs, and outlooks are too misaligned for any immediate change. Resident hunters, resident hunters based on locality, ranchers, farmers, NR, fwp, and the MD population itself. Did I miss any? I suppose the biggest shift could occur if there was a real meaningful study done on the population dynamics of the deer AND fwp made meaningful change based on the results of said study. Or am I totally missing the mark here? I'll give the recent podcasts a listen.
Elk changed everything for R7. Resident guys would draw a trophy elk tag and come out with 2 or 3 buddies, each with at least a buck tag but usually would also buy the 2 additional mule deer doe tags, and would stack up the bed of a truck with deer on their way back to wherever they came from.
The deer hunting was good as elk numbers were coming up, at least better than Western MT, so guys would continue to make their mule deer trip even on years they didn’t draw an elk license, and continue to stack up bucks and does.
Antelope have been affected too. You used to rarely see anyone hunting the Custer for antelope. Elk hunters came from all over, saw an abundance of public land where they didn’t have to knock on a door to ask permission, and began hammering the antelope as well. Especially when it could line up with their last weekend of archery hunting, or a mule deer buck and 2 does type trip. An antelope buck does not stand a chance there anymore, and opening weekend is absolutely nuts.
Combine that with wild fires opening up the area and removing cover, and huge increases in technology and overall general hunting knowledge availability (social media), and you have a recipe for the disaster we are currently seeing.
People forget that SW MT and areas around Butte and others used to be primarily mule deer and fantastic mule deer hunting before the elk really established there and everything tanked. It was long ago enough that most folks just assume that it’s always been poor for mule deer and better for elk, but that hasn’t always been the case. A family friend with a ranch near Butte was telling me how it used to be rare to ever see an elk on the place and that they primarily had an abundance of mule deer. They also had a giant mule deer mount hanging in the house. Now, it’s rare to see a mule deer and the ranch is crowded with elk at all times. I don’t know how to fix western MT and don’t spend enough time there, but making that place better too would help relieve some of the pressure R6 and R7 are receiving.
The deer hunting was good as elk numbers were coming up, at least better than Western MT, so guys would continue to make their mule deer trip even on years they didn’t draw an elk license, and continue to stack up bucks and does.
Antelope have been affected too. You used to rarely see anyone hunting the Custer for antelope. Elk hunters came from all over, saw an abundance of public land where they didn’t have to knock on a door to ask permission, and began hammering the antelope as well. Especially when it could line up with their last weekend of archery hunting, or a mule deer buck and 2 does type trip. An antelope buck does not stand a chance there anymore, and opening weekend is absolutely nuts.
Combine that with wild fires opening up the area and removing cover, and huge increases in technology and overall general hunting knowledge availability (social media), and you have a recipe for the disaster we are currently seeing.
People forget that SW MT and areas around Butte and others used to be primarily mule deer and fantastic mule deer hunting before the elk really established there and everything tanked. It was long ago enough that most folks just assume that it’s always been poor for mule deer and better for elk, but that hasn’t always been the case. A family friend with a ranch near Butte was telling me how it used to be rare to ever see an elk on the place and that they primarily had an abundance of mule deer. They also had a giant mule deer mount hanging in the house. Now, it’s rare to see a mule deer and the ranch is crowded with elk at all times. I don’t know how to fix western MT and don’t spend enough time there, but making that place better too would help relieve some of the pressure R6 and R7 are receiving.
Forkyfinder
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Elk numbers arent up universally in western Mt. At all. In the last 20/30 years - theres a lot of sw montana thats had the elk numbers drop a lot.
If anything the elk hunting has trended way down there too. Way better odds of harvest going east of billings for rifle season and chance shooting a cow/muley for a lof of people.
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antlerradar
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Agree, we are going to have to ether separate mule deer hunting from elk or go to strict LE mule deer state wide.
It’s not just the Custer that’s in bad shape and it’s not that elk tag bringing people into 703
I’d be curious to know how many of those guys started with an elk tag focused on 704, learned to like hunting deer/antelope in eastern MT, saw SE MT go downhill, and decided to spread out to places like 703 and others for deer/antelope trips. Maybe a few, maybe no correlation. The guys I know though making the trip out all started because of an elk tag they drew or a family/friend drew.
Doesn’t matter either way, just adding to the conversation. Mule deer are in bad shape everywhere regardless, from us shooting them, and the elk aren’t going anywhere, nor do we want them to as sportsmen.
I think OnX has had the biggest effect on 703 and many other areas that aren’t forest service. I’ve lived here my whole life and it has opened up more hunting even for me
I would agree. It also seems like there has been a giant shift to public land DIY hunters.
psinclair
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Region 6 is even worse than region 7. The deer numbers vs hunter numbers up here is beyond ridiculous.
I spent 20+ days flying low level in a helicopter, and supercub in my five county district last winter on good snow cover. The number of mature bucks I saw you could count on one hand.... it's catastrophic.
I spent 20+ days flying low level in a helicopter, and supercub in my five county district last winter on good snow cover. The number of mature bucks I saw you could count on one hand.... it's catastrophic.
For my area there is a lot more BMAs now than there was 20 years ago.
That’s not good when you aren’t turning them up
huntin24/7
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Agreed. As much as I use and love onX, especially when hunting new areas, there are 1-2 sections of state land that I spent a lot of time scouting in the summer to learn tricky access points that saw very little pressure. These chunks now can be figured out access wise by someone 1000 miles away in 60 seconds upon driving up to them and are hunted by up to 3-5 groups a day. While it’s still overall a good tool, it adds significantly to public land pressure. Like mapping, firearms, and other technology advantages we have today, it’s another reason that changes are needed management wise.
antlerradar
Well-known member
Leasing started in the early 80's, By the nineties nearly all of the best quality private land was leased. I don't think the amount of leased land has changed much since 2000, but I could be wrong. The one thing that has changed is now more of the leases are by individuals instead of outfitters.
antlerradar
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I have seen where elk pressure has pushed mule deer hunters to parts of the forest with fewer elk, would not be surprised if the flood of hunters the elk have brought into 704 has not pushed hunters to 703.
cgasner1
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Kinda seems like a natural migration of pressure really
