ELK POACHED

[JoseCuervo]

Ten,

quote:
"A guy takes a client or just himself in a Super Cub into the backcountry to poach. "

How come you are always pointing out that Motorized access enables poaching??? (and before you ask for "foundation", all Super Cubs have motors, or at least those that are airworthy.)

I guess maybe I should be advocating the removal of airstrips in Central Idaho. And I likely will, if they turn out to be a burden on the resource like poachers on ATVS.

 

[BuzzH]

Ten bears, how many poachers own supercubs? How many poachers own ATV's?

Now, I'll admit I'm not a game warden...but if I was, it would be fairly easy for me to figure out if a guy who owned a cub kept showing up at the nearest airstrip with an excessive amount of game, he may need to be checked.

Its isnt hard to track a poacher that would use a cub, pretty tough to sort out the same person out of a group of 7 million who all own ATV's.

If you want to keep your head in the sand, or planted in your ass, thats fine with me. Just ask any Warden if easy access and atv's make poaching easier or tougher. Thats really a no-brainer, but apparently it escapes your intelligence level.

 

[Ten Bears]

EG, I've been against airstrips, maintained trails, and iron pack bridges in the wilderness for decades.

Poaching has long been a problem throughout the West, and authorities say only a small percentage of illegal hunters are caught...

Most hunters do everything by the book....

In Montana and New Mexico, the average area a game warden covers is about 2,000 square miles - about the size of Delaware. Almost always, they work alone, with the closest backup sometimes 60 miles away. (No wonder those backcountry poachers get away with so much)

And the ratio of hunters to officers is high. Last year in Idaho, there were 5,000 hunters to every officer. "It's kinda like being in the ninth inning forever," said one warden....

The extent of poaching is hard to quantify, but the consensus among game officers is that they catch a small percentage of poachers. An Idaho study found that for every legal animal killed in a particular hunting district, another was illegally taken. Officials suspect the same is true statewide.

Last year in Idaho, there were 11,955 elk and 36,455 deer killed legally.(WOW, that means there were 11,955 elk and 36,455 elk killed illegally)

"It's very frustrating not to be able to give people hard factual data," said Young. But poaching is a crime of secrecy. Poachers don't usually break the law in front of an officer, and a dead animal isn't going to file a report. Nor is the victim's family likely to show up at city hall demanding justice.

Then, too, poaching is a crime committed in desolate places, where people aren't likely to think anything if they hear a gunshot or see a man walking down a mountain road with a rifle slung over his shoulder.

For trophy poachers, though, wardens rely on traditional law-enforcement techniques - and, again, on tips.

Trophy poachers will do whatever it takes to get a mountable animal, Darrah said. They pay top dollar to guides who help them find animals to poach, they hunt with spotlights, they hunt out of season, they kill animals on winter ranges where they group together to survive.

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2003/11/20/outdoors/od01.txt

Keep hiding from the real problem EG, BUZZ, IT..... That sand pit should be getting pretty full of rumps in the air soon.....

 

[BuzzH]

Ten bears, thanks again for pointing out the access is the main reason for poaching.

"they hunt with spotlights, they hunt out of season, they kill animals on winter ranges"

Tell me, do you suppose all those wilderness poachers are packing in car batteries to run those million candle power spotlights? I know, they're spotlighting from super cubs, right?

Killing animals on winter range, where the animals are easily accessible.

How can you not get it? People that poach are lazy, and just love roads and atv's...

 

[Ten Bears]

BUZZ, I think your straining your intellectual limits.

Sad to hear you've been straining with that battery all these years.

http://www.all-tool.com/BY_MASTER_CATAGORY/Electric_Power_Tools/Flashlights/Flashlights/flashlights_0.htm
http://www.marinegeneral.com/acatalog/Online_Catalog_Vector_Manufacturing_Lighting_250.html

they hunt with spotlights, they hunt out of season, they kill animals on winter ranges

Nowhere does it mention there the use of ATV's or other motor vehicles as the sole, primary, or other basis of poaching.

 

[BuzzH]

Ten bears,

You know whats really great about you and the defense of ATV's?

You're fighting a losing battle.

Every year, theres more and more areas being closed down to atv's. The more the case is made against atv's the more you squawk.

You know its true, you cant deny it, so you resort to looking foolish to defend your atv's.

Thats your choice, I can respect that, but please keep in mind that I'm always in support of any ATV restrictions or closures...

The good guys are winning big on this issue.

 

[Ten Bears]

BUZZ, either you really don't have a clue, or you are involved in poaching and working hard to divert attention. I pity your limited mental ability, and your extreme insecurity.
Just a clue, there was poaching long before there were ATV's, or even forest circus roads.

 

[BuzzH]

Ten bears, you're wrong as usual, nothing new there.

I'm actually pretty secure in the fact that ATV's are going to be extremely restricted for hunting. Your state is leading the way, many will follow.

The FS, BLM, and other fed agencies are all calling for more and more closures and restrictions. They recognize the damage and the conflicts they cause.

Also, feel free to contact the various state game wardens if you suspect I'm a poacher...you related to anyone in Encampment?

I'd say since I dont own an atv its not all that likely that I poach. I'm also not going to put my job at risk, my reputation at risk, or do anything to damage a resource I spend my money, time, and effort fighting for. It wouldnt make sense.

I think its sad you'd resort to making this kind of accusation.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Ten,

Are you really accusing Buzz of poaching?

 

[Ten Bears]

Most of my kin in WY are located in Casper, Sheridan, and Kacee areas.

Sad to see you relate all poaching with ATV's, and can't get beyond that mental hurdle.

 

[Bullhound]

"I'd say since I dont own an atv its not all that likely that I poach. I'm also not going to put my job at risk, my reputation at risk, or do anything to damage a resource I spend my money, time, and effort fighting for. It wouldnt make sense."

Buzz,

Your reputation aint worth a bucket of shit as far as I can tell.

"I think its sad you'd resort to making this kind of accusation."

This statement from a prick who casts stones as fast and furious as anybody? I've printed and shown your comments to a few State CO's and Bio's, as well as other HUNTERS from this area. Why don't you come visit Lewiston Buzz. You'll get a real warm welcome from all who've read your comments about Lewiston.

As I have said before, I hate the idiots that abuse the rules and flat break the laws with their ATV's. But to turn the issue of poaching into an attack on ATV's is frickin stupid. Let's look at this with a LITTLE COMMON SENSE. A poacher wants to conduct his activities in secrecy. A poacher most likely has a need to hide his poached animals. A truck is a ton quieter than any ATV and how in the hell are you going to hide your POACHED ANIMALS on an ATV?

Wake up and fight your crusade where it needs fought. You'd probably have a bunch more on your side. I fight against Poaching any way I can. I also have many, many calls, visits, and emails to and with F&G, Senators, Reps, etc., in an attempt to stop the ATV abuse that does go on. They are seperate issues, period.

 

[BuzzH]

Ten bears,

I thought maybe you were related to Pug Doykin, AKA, Bcat, who used to post here...

He was big into turning in others on the board for poaching without proof or cause, thats why I asked.

Sad to see your comprehension still sucks, go look at what I said...

I never said "all poaching" was related to atv's, but that "most" was related to easy access and in many cases atv's facilitate poachers...

The 4th graders on the bus dont seem to be of any help with your reading skills.

Bullhound, is living in Lewiston like living in fantasy land?

You're really going to tell me that what I said about Lewiston isnt true? There arent any redneck poachers in Lewiston...PLLLLEASE, spare me the crap. I've spent enough time in and around Lewiston to know whats going on. I'll rail on Lewiston any time I feel like it, deal with it.

The atv/access issue and poaching sure as hell are related issues. I provided some pretty good proof of it as well. The Ruths were able to pull off most of their poaching because of atv's. They rode behind gates illegally to poach, had spotlights on their atv's, poached in areas where they'd made illegal trails ON ATV's, etc. etc. etc.

Since you're so big into all the CO contacts call Seeley lake and talk to the warden there who made the case against the Ruths, ask him how often their atv's were involved.


How are the issues not related?

 

[Bullhound]

Come to Lewiston and I'll explain it to ya

 

[Ten Bears]

BUZZ,

The atv/access issue and poaching sure as hell are related issues..... The Ruths were able to pull off most of their poaching because of atv's. They rode behind gates illegally to poach, had spotlights on their atv's, poached in areas where they'd made illegal trails ON ATV's, etc. etc. etc.

You've yet to show why LEGAL riders should be penalized for their ILLEGAL activities. I know you lack comprehensive skills outside your tunneled thought process (so I'm typing slow and using small words, just for you). Would their activities been able to continue had SOME of the closed roads been open for recreational riding? Would any of their ILLEGAL trails been discovered by LEGAL riders if some of those roads had been open to recreational riders? Would any of these animals been killed (with or without the aid of ATV's, spotlights, or ILLEGAL trails) without the use of firearms. What was the primary tool used in all these poaching incidents?

 

[BuzzH]

Ten beers,

I give up, ATV's never cause any resource damage, never aid poachers, and we should have unlimited motorized access to every acre of federal land. Theres only 2 bad atvers out there that cause all these problems anyway, we really need to catch those two dudes.

I say we start with roading winter-range for big-game animals, and continue from there. Every atv should be equipped with a chainsaw to clear those pesky trees. A broadcast seed spreader should also be standard equipment, along with a 50# bag of knapweed, leafy spurge, and canada thistle seed.

We should all do our part for wildlife by demanding that the USFS, BLM, etc. be required to put a road every 50 yards on all their property, wilderness included. The 380,000 miles of road we currently have on FS land just isnt enough. A minimum of 15 miles of road in every section will be the average we shoot for. That way no one is excluded and we can get the true "multiple use" experience. Also, the handicapped will now be able to enjoy the "wilderness" with these new rules and regulations,

Roads should also be intensified in riparian areas, and these areas should also be fully developed for the ATV crowd thats into mud bogging. We must be sensitive to their needs.

All meadows and open areas should be torn up to dirt. We cant discriminate on where people choose to ride their atv's. Dont worry about hill climbing in areas with granitic or sandy soils, let the torn up hillsides wash down into the creeks, it makes more opportunity for mud bogging.

Call your congressionals now and support the ATV crowd, disregard wildlife and their habitat, the needs of wilderness, make public lands truly "multiple use" friendly.

 

[Bullhound]

Wholy shit, I thought the name of this thread was "Elk Poached".

Obviuosly I pulled up the wrong thread.............

 

[JoseCuervo]

Ten

I love this quote that you posted.

Then, too, poaching is a crime committed in desolate places, where people aren't likely to think anything if they hear a gunshot or see a man walking down a mountain road with a rifle slung over his shoulder.

Once again, all on your own, you bring out the correlation between Poaching and Roads. You are definitely batting about a 1.000 on pointing out that Roads and Poaching go hand in hand....

 

[cjcj]

Well after "sifting" thru some of this stuff i have to add my 2 cents, lets face some facts, poaching has been around as long as laws against it were made[true]? you don`t need a car battery for a 200,000 wt spotlite, they make them rechargeable and they weigh about 2-3 lb`s, yes roads and atv`s help or assist hunters and poachers, but so do boats and rivers and silencers

? so why is an atv anymore "tied" to poachers than boats/rivers/silencers/trucks/snowmobiles/nightvision etc.?​

 

[JoseCuervo]

CJ,

I think you deserve change back from your 2 cents....

I think using silencers and nightvision equipment for big game is illegal, just like the ATVS and Poaching. But thank you for bringing them up....

I am not sure that Boats are as connected to poaching as ATVs, as Boats are fairly limited to where they can go. Whereas ATVs, can't seem to stay on designated trails, and always seem to be creating new, illegal trails or just cross country.

And Rivers are HUGE barriers to poaching, as most poachers will not work hard enough to cross a river to break the law. As Buzz pointed out, most poachers are lazy, that is why they use the ATVs.

And finally, without any statistics to back it up, I would venture to guess that most big game poaching does not include "trophy" animals of a specie. I would bet more than 1/2 the poaching is females without horns. And the most of the rest are opportunistic males.

You do hear about the occaisional Trophy "ring", but I would bet most poaching is done within 50 feet of the ATV, so the animal can be loaded and gone in just a few minutes.

 

[Ten Bears]

And Rivers are HUGE barriers to poaching, as most poachers will not work hard enough to cross a river to break the law. As Buzz pointed out, most poachers are lazy, that is why they use the ATVs.

You make a lot of claims (BUZZ too), but can you back any of them up??? Or is it everyone is supposed to just take your word(s) for it? Your ASSumptions mean nothing, unless you can put foudation with them. Without foundation your ASSumptions are just PREJUDICE.

Please feelfree to refer to this site for some help:
http://www.mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/chap7/chap7l.htm