Elitist Hunters

[JoseCuervo]

I got tired of arguing about motorized v. non-motorized access a long time ago. After all, we all use motors to some degree. The point is habitat. If you want elk, and you want an elk season and branch antlered bulls, you have to manage traffic. It's not about elitism or style of hunting. It's biology. It's what elk need.

In one of the best units around here, we had to go to a 2-point restriction with the advent of the ATV. It was "temporary" until the herds rebounded. 30 years later..... still waiting.... The ability for ATV riders to cover 40 miles in a day with rifles shooting 600 yards is impressive way to manage deer populations.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I got tired of arguing about motorized v. non-motorized access a long time ago. After all, we all use motors to some degree. The point is habitat. If you want elk, and you want an elk season and branch antlered bulls, you have to manage traffic. It's not about elitism or style of hunting. It's biology. It's what elk need.

Exactly.

This is why you are Ben1.

 

[1_pointer]

You will see attempts to eliminate both roadless areas and wilderness study areas in this congress. If the secretary of the interior says we do away with them, then I think I'll be proven correct. If you are correct, I'll gladly send Zinke a sloppy, wet kiss.

Make me "king" for a day and the first thing I would do is eliminate wilderness study areas...

 

[Ben Lamb]

Make me "king" for a day and the first thing I would do is eliminate wilderness study areas...

Make me king for a day and I'd get the politics out of the decision to obstruct at all costs that has hamstrung the intent for 30 years.

 

[BuzzH]

If a guy wants to walk into an area that is already vehicle restricted to hunt that is fine. But to close off areas that have previously, or currently, have roads or atv trails, I don't agree with that. There are people that think that anything whatsoever that has to do with vehicle access is bad, or Lazy, or any number of things. I have ATV's and I use them to get to areas that otherwise would be inaccessible to me, or that would take twice as long to get there in a pickup. I Rode my ATV to an area this year and then hiked into a canyon about a mile and killed an elk with my muzzleloader. I spent the rest of the day, by myself, packing the elk back to the ATV. Does that make me any less of a hunter? I don't think so. but some people would think less of me cause I used and ATV. I saw that Randy Used an ATV on his Elk hunt last year to access some country that had bad roads. He killed that huge bull and then spent days packing it back to the ATV. Was his hunt somehow cheapened because of the ATV use? I don't think so and I bet Randy doesn't think so. We also have to remember that there are alot of people that are out enjoying the mountains on their ATV's that are not even hunting. They are just going for a ride sightseeing or fishing, or picking berrys or whatever. Doesn't really matter. Are we as hunters entitled to shut down existing roads that would limit these peoples access just cause we want the place to ourselves?

I'll respectfully disagree with some of the things you said.

Things don't happen in a vacuum, there are very valid reasons for closing down or restricting access.

In some of the areas I used to hunt, hundreds of miles of existing road was gated. It was done for a lot of reasons, including road damage, bull trout, for calving/fawning, etc. etc.

I believe that a person has to keep in mind, there are many other issues involved other than your "right" to keep a road open that you drove last year.

Decreasing motorized access can also help to maintain longer hunting seasons, keeping more people in the field, increasing quota's etc.

On the flip side, making access easier to our wildlife resources can find GF agencies reducing season lengths, and quotas.

Its about balance, and doing what's best for the resource FIRST.

Gating a road doesn't make an area off limits to anyone but those that think they're entitled to drive a machine there.

 

[BuzzH]

I have always been an advocate of walk-in only areas, as I abhor road hunting. BUT, the other side of that is that the physically challenged hunters are pretty much shut out from enjoying a lot of good areas. I don't really know what the answer is, because the minute you open roads, then the area ceases to be a good area in many instances.

Sometimes there really is not a good compromise.

Hooper, good post.

The answer is, that its just flat too frickin' bad if some people are not able to access every square inch of public land. Too bad that they're handicapped, too bad they're fat and lazy, too bad their back hurts, too bad they get old.

Its called life, and its not supposed to be fair.

The thing I've routinely noticed, is that those doing the bitching that an old or handicapped person is being "locked out" is never the handicapped or old person. Its a young, able bodied, mental midget that wants to be able to ride a machine everywhere they go.

I think most old and handicapped people are resilient enough to deal with it and hunt/fish within their abilities. I know not a single one that is so selfish, they would want a road punched into the Bob Marshall so they can ride a machine there.

I never heard my Grandfather ever bitch about a gated road or a wilderness area.

 

[psinclair]

Old guy way to hunt.....

How many horse/mule haters are there on this site? Just wondering......

 

[JoseCuervo]

Old guy way to hunt.....

How many horse/mule haters are there on this site? Just wondering......

I hate them. The entire time I am sitting on them I am using every 4-Letter word I know.

 

[1976]

If Mr. Zinke believes in opening up some of these gated roads to allow more access across the west he will have a fight on his hands and it won't be those that wish to keep areas closed, it will be with the House and Senate when he tries appropriate more funding for the Forest Service to repair the roads which are well, junk.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

If Mr. Zinke believes in opening up some of these gated roads to allow more access across the west he will have a fight on his hands and it won't be those that wish to keep areas closed, it will be with the House and Senate when he tries appropriate more funding for the Forest Service to repair the roads which are well, junk.

You sure? I have never seen a Congress that had a problem doing things with no plan on how to pay for it.

 

[Sytes]

Extremist from both sides like to yell out their position, often to the loss of those not "toeing their political line"... Notice, DOI has no relation to US Forest Service nor Wilderness.

Wanted to share the responsibilities of DOI:



The USDA covers our US National Forests / Wilderness.

 

[Ben Lamb]

That's right, Sytes. Which makes me wonder if Zinke understands his position at all.

 

[JoseCuervo]

There is a reason it is called the Bureau of Livestock and Mining....

 

[hank4elk]

I did know that Sytes. I see direct links to oversight/management between DOI & USDA.
Love Buzz's post.
BL,I think he knows exactly his place...........

 

[sbhooper]

Hooper, good post.

The answer is, that its just flat too frickin' bad if some people are not able to access every square inch of public land. Too bad that they're handicapped, too bad they're fat and lazy, too bad their back hurts, too bad they get old.

Its called life, and its not supposed to be fair.

The thing I've routinely noticed, is that those doing the bitching that an old or handicapped person is being "locked out" is never the handicapped or old person. Its a young, able bodied, mental midget that wants to be able to ride a machine everywhere they go.

I think most old and handicapped people are resilient enough to deal with it and hunt/fish within their abilities. I know not a single one that is so selfish, they would want a road punched into the Bob Marshall so they can ride a machine there.

I never heard my Grandfather ever bitch about a gated road or a wilderness area.

Yep and the continuation of that is that most people that are truly physically challenged (not just fat and lazy) are happy to be out in the wilds, however they can get there. There is a point where age will handicap some, as well as other issues, but like you said, "Life is not fair and was never meant to be".

Using them as a reason to open roads, is just plain pathetic.

I think that my give-a-damn is going to wear out well before my physical capabilities do.

 

[1_pointer]

Extremist from both sides like to yell out their position, often to the loss of those not "toeing their political line"... Notice, DOI has no relation to US Forest Service nor Wilderness.

Wanted to share the responsibilities of DOI:

View attachment 66895

The USDA covers our US National Forests / Wilderness.

The DOI definitely has a relationship with Wilderness in that they are responsible for management on more than a little of it...

 

[Schaaf]

Make me "king" for a day and the first thing I would do is eliminate wilderness study areas...

Yep, we would have another half dozen or so wilderness areas within 75 miles from my door.

 

[Sytes]

1 pointer, I'm aware of DOI and USDA for the responsibility over our Wilderness, that is if I understand it correctly. However based on the pure declaration of the Wilderness Act, I believe people want to proclaim Zinke with the intent to run ATV highways through this land... for extreme representation, hence extremist toeing their political line. I do not believe this is the case. We disagree? Probably. Aside from our Wilderness Act, and looking at our US Forests, some seek to place an indirect oversight and portray it as direct. I disagree.

 

[Irrelevant]

Make me "king" for a day and the first thing I would do is eliminate wilderness study areas...

Hopefully by making them wilderness. My elk area is a wilderness study area and the closest place to heaven I've ever found. But the old jeep tire tracks are still prevalent throughout as reminders of less holy time.

 

[squirrel]

Old guy way to hunt.....

How many horse/mule haters are there on this site? Just wondering......

I can't really work up hatred for any animal, but those things are just UGLY...

Note the clean lines, intelligent eyes, calm demeanor, not to mention the chic magnet effect at the trailhead of a "free to a bad home" quality bred rescue animal...

I've met more than one geezer of more than 3/4 century experience 10 miles from a trailhead or more, and watched many under 40 fail at less than a mile level walk (well kinda level)

annual rings have less to do with it than toughness above the shoulders...