Elitist Hunters

[Sytes]

Charles,

The number of roads on public land is staggering. If you want more, pay for the ones that already exist. That means paying for them with shorter seasons, more restrictions and less opportunity. The more roads - the less habitat. It's why the roadless areas conservation rule was so well supported by hunters in Montana.

I certainly agree with that, well mostly. I believe some of the road closures should be re-evaluated based on the maintenance of our wildlife management and appreciating other recreational activities. However, I believe the roads I am most familiar with relate to the USFS as I am not near involved with BLM to know their road closures. If they are similar, then I would agree with Zinke. there is more to our outdoors than just the home of elitist hunters.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I certainly agree with that, well mostly. I believe some of the road closures should be re-evaluated based on the maintenance of our wildlife management and appreciating other recreational activities. However, I believe the roads I am most familiar with relate to the USFS as I am not near involved with BLM to know their road closures. If they are similar, then I would agree with Zinke. there is more to our outdoors than just the home of elitist hunters.

Seasonal closures of roads has been the norm for a while now. They're open during summer & archery season and then closed for rifle. That's about habitat security more than travel management. Those roads closures are generally lumped in with the BRC & ALC numbers on closed roads. Sportsmen fought for those closures so we had elk closer to the trailheads during rifle season. By and large, those closures work well and save fat guys like me a few miles to get into fresh sign & critters.

Increased motorized also has the negative effect of dispersed weeds across a larger landscape, creating yet another major expense for both the BLM & USFS. Horses & stock are required to have certified wee-free hay on public lands. ORV's don't. I'm not saying ORV's don't belong on public lands, I'm just saying we need to look at all of the impacts to the habitat that they have, and regulate them accordingly.

 

[Zach]

Seasonal closures of roads has been the norm for a while now. They're open during summer & archery season and then closed for rifle. That's about habitat security more than travel management. Those roads closures are generally lumped in with the BRC & ALC numbers on closed roads. Sportsmen fought for those closures so we had elk closer to the trailheads during rifle season. By and large, those closures work well and save fat guys like me a few miles to get into fresh sign & critters.

Increased motorized also has the negative effect of dispersed weeds across a larger landscape, creating yet another major expense for both the BLM & USFS. Horses & stock are required to have certified wee-free hay on public lands. ORV's don't. I'm not saying ORV's don't belong on public lands, I'm just saying we need to look at all of the impacts to the habitat that they have, and regulate them accordingly.

Check stations for boats are the norm in certain areas, might as well have motorized ones too. Just make sure the registration covers it.

Is there a reference that these seasonal road closures are habitat based vs some dumb arse getting stuck & stranded?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Check stations for boats are the norm in certain areas, might as well have motorized ones too. Just make sure the registration covers it.

Is there a reference that these seasonal road closures are habitat based vs some dumb arse getting stuck & stranded?

https://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs_int/int_gtr303.pdf

Enjoy!

 

[RobG]

Lot's of talk of getting locked out by gated roads, but I remember gated roads in the logged areas in the Swan and Mission ranges - and that was 40 years ago when Zinke was trying to get promoted to a leadership position on his Jr. High football team. By the way, that is about 15 years before ATVs even became popular, but now they seem to be a God given right.

As far as I can tell the road closures on BLM in southern MT is just a suggestion. The rules are totally ignored and the fine is minimal.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Never understood how a guy with a pair of boots was an elitist, but a guy with $15K worth of motorized gadgets was a good ol' boy.

 

[Southern Elk]

Never understood how a guy with a pair of boots was an elitist, but a guy with $15K worth of motorized gadgets was a good ol' boy.

Have you seen how much those new Kenetrek boots cost?

 

[u1299]

The "slot" is the size of fish that have to be released. Anything outside that slot can be kept and there usually is a daily limit to that number. The young man that kept that fish to have it mounted and got hollered at was within the law!

Thanks for the clarification, I do know what a slot limit is just didn't interpret the post the same way. Kudos to the young man who kept the legal fish. Lucky for the guys who ridiculed him I wasn't the young man with the fish.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Have you seen how much those new Kenetrek boots cost?

Less than a horse, Llama or ORV.

 

[grandejuan]

Kenetreks are made in Italy or a non specified "Imported" country, take your pick where. They may make a few styles in Bozeman, but not many. To bad. GJ

 

[JoseCuervo]

We can't forget about future generations, either. Any transfer steals from them, as well. That's the saddest part.
.

That is the thing.

For me personally, I could probably buy, or, get together with a few buddies, and buy some very strategic parcels of Federal Land, that would allow me to lock up great expanses of hunting. (We all know those little parcels that block much other land.)

And, I am sure I could outbid the local rancher who has to try and buy every other adjoining parcel he has ran cattle on for years.


If I want to be selfish, I want to "Take My Public Lands Back" from the Govt.

 

[Southern Elk]

Less than a horse, Llama or ORV.

Ain't that the truth. Some of those UTVs go for over 20 grand now. We were in West Yellowstone a couple of weeks back and I thought man, I'd like to have a snowmobile if I ever move up here. Looked at some online and couldn't believe how much they cost. There are guys out there with UTVs, ATVs, snowmobiles, boats, and campers that probably, all total, cost more than my house. I'm not hating, I'm envious. I don't know how they do it.

 

[James Riley]

Never understood how a guy with a pair of boots was an elitist, but a guy with $15K worth of motorized gadgets was a good ol' boy.

The exact same thing happened to the cowboy, the flag and the uniform. Co-opting goodness without earning it is the hallmark of the lazy hypocrite. But it works so well that even those who lost ground believe the new "truth".

 

[Schaaf]

Come on, elitists don't hike in blue jeans.

 

[Zach]

https://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs_int/int_gtr303.pdf

Enjoy!

Interesting, and I'm not done reading yet, but it references the summer range but not winter closures. Perhaps I need to complete my reading, which I'll try to do on my layover in the state everyone in the west seems to loathe.

Summer range includes the habitat used by elk from about late green-up (May) until they move to winter ranges, but prior to the hunting season.

 

[OriginalOscar]

If you didn't know how Bears Ear would be managed as a monument, that's on you. They had the proposal out for years, and it's been discussed for over 70 years.

As for the slot limit, that's too bad. As a catch and release guy, I don't give one whit aboutpeople keeping legal fish.

And predator control is a boondoggle, plain and simple.

Elitist out'd

Troy Rushton

 

[JoseCuervo]

Elitist out'd

Troy Rushton

k


Because knowledge is elite.

 

[Eric Albus]

Ok, I am and have been convinced that Fed. transfer to the states is a poor idea....but how about we begin to pressure the Fed. to manage their lands better? If the state can realize a 10x return the Fed should be able to easily. Even if it means a fee increase on BLM grazing to me.

However we have the crowd out there that wants to see no logging, no mining, no nothing...just look at a picture of the scenery and trust us it is there cause we say it's there.

 

[Sytes]

Ok, I am and have been convinced that Fed. transfer to the states is a poor idea....but how about we begin to pressure the Fed. to manage their lands better? If the state can realize a 10x return the Fed should be able to easily. Even if it means a fee increase on BLM grazing to me.

However we have the crowd out there that wants to see no logging, no mining, no nothing...just look at a picture of the scenery and trust us it is there cause we say it's there.

Eric hit the nail dead on! While I muse over his writings and the subsequent flame throwing aftermath... This has to be the KEY issue and a main common ground. Extremists from both sides have to acknowledge this instead of the partisan fighting that only takes ONE push over the edge... our land becomes feudal Era.

Whether sincere and passionate, statistically speaking you will not retain 100% win ratio. One loss and the land is gone.
A bi-partisan focus on the leadership decisions and management actions focused on the mind boggling bs court frivolous injunctions have killed American jobs over and over and over!
Hell, I am directly involved in this area and share sincerely the logging in CANADA routed to US... US in both ways...Our U.S. and us and in our lumber, cardboard, on and on and on! These log trucks pass right through OUR unemployed towns who are directly unemployed due to these craptacular, lack of logging due to lawsuits, injunctions, etc! Forests that archery may hold a 20 yard shooting lane. The logging trucks drive the highways right through these forests!

And in no way am I for clear cutting, Buzz cutting from here to eternity! Work at proper management of ALL resources! Logging is just one aspect.

/happy rant off.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Ok, I am and have been convinced that Fed. transfer to the states is a poor idea....but how about we begin to pressure the Fed. to manage their lands better? If the state can realize a 10x return the Fed should be able to easily. Even if it means a fee increase on BLM grazing to me.

However we have the crowd out there that wants to see no logging, no mining, no nothing...just look at a picture of the scenery and trust us it is there cause we say it's there.

Love to see the reaction on Welfare Ranchers when you raise their grazing fro, $1.53 to $15.30 per month...

Talk about people squealing.....