Coyote findings;

[1oldcoyote]

I've read for many years now. Some experienced coyote people making some bold claims. Mostly made by Biologists & or Dr's. of Biology. As they have proclaimed. What a coyote is expressing in their vocals. Some of those Biologists claim a vast array of so called "truths". I would like to know more. On how they have come to their conclusions. Do they know said coyote(s) on a personal level? Understand completely as to the true meaning of their vocals or behaviors? Were those studied coyotes. Radio collared & video camera collared?. To whom they concluded as to those coyote(s) particular behaviors/vocals? What about understanding the communications among the family group? Or communications of trespasser coyotes? How about neighboring territorial coyotes? Were those studied coyote(s). Radio & video camera collared? Or were they just observed from a far distance? Then, said opinions were formed formed form those observations? I have many unanswered questions. Before I buy into or consider their findings as Gospel. In all manners relating to the Coyotes.

 

[kiwi hunter]

Non illegitimae carborundum. They have to justify.

 

[44hunter45]

"Some People" made "Some Claims." Who said it and what studies? If their papers are worth a damn, they should address your questions.
Are you just riffing, or do you think that someone on Hunttalk is able to answer your concerns?

I'm not trying to be an asshole, we have enough of those around here. Just go to the Ryan Busse thread for examples.
But - Unless you control their grant funding, I doubt any of these people care much about whether you accept their conclusions or not.

 

[1oldcoyote]

"Some People" made "Some Claims." Who said it and what studies? If their papers are worth a damn, they should address your questions.
Are you just riffing, or do you think that someone on Hunttalk is able to answer your concerns?

I'm not trying to be an asshole, we have enough of those around here. Just go to the Ryan Busse thread for examples.
But - Unless you control their grant funding, I doubt any of these people care much about whether you accept their conclusions or not.

I'm making generalized questions I have had for many yrs. Not aimed at anyone here in particular. Because I do not know any Biologist off hand. Especially if any wild canid Biologist(s) may be a member on here. If said Biologist is one of a few. Who has made those personal claims/findings. To which I speak of.

I have been on many predator boards over many yrs. I read people's "claims". When they speak/write/remark about the coyotes. Some claims are legit in my experience. As they reflect my experiences. While other "professional" claims. Seem to be verbal/written fillers. ie; Grasping at the straw as to reality.

 

[44hunter45]

I'm making generalized questions I have had for many yrs. Not aimed at anyone here in particular. Because I do not know any Biologist off hand. Especially if any wild canid Biologist(s) may be a member on here. If said Biologist is one of a few. Who has made those personal claims/findings. To which I speak of.

I have been on many predator boards over many yrs. I read people's "claims". When they speak/write/remark about the coyotes. Some claims are legit in my experience. As they reflect my experiences. While other "professional" claims. Seem to be verbal/written fillers. ie; Grasping at the straw as to reality.

Can't disagree. Scientists are all too human. Just like the rest of us. They can grandstand like the rest of us.

A family friend whom I will not name is a prominent canid scientist (emeritus). His research suffered a major "Oops" when it was discovered that his study coyotes were sneaking out of the pens at night to kill sheep, but coming back to the kennels before morning. He had been rejecting local wool grower's complaints about dead sheep because his study group was "secure". They could not possibly be getting out. Until the hole in the enclosure was accidentally discovered by a grad student.

Stay humble or be humbled.

 

[1oldcoyote]

Can't disagree. Scientists are all too human. Just like the rest of us. They can grandstand like the rest of us.

A family friend whom I will not name is a prominent canid scientist (emeritus). His research suffered a major "Oops" when it was discovered that his study coyotes were sneaking out of the pens at night to kill sheep, but coming back to the kennels before morning. He had been rejecting local wool grower's complaints about dead sheep because his study group was "secure". They could not possibly be getting out. Until the hole in the enclosure was accidentally discovered by a grad student.

Stay humble or be humbled.

When a person speaks of their findings about the coyotes. Then expressing their findings as "factual". I take into consideration my own observations over many decades. Then compare what they claim to what I've seen. I've hunted coyotes, since Fall/Winter of 1968. I estimated I've observed well over 2500+ coyotes over the yrs. The coyotes I observed were out on the open rolling hills. Many of them I never tried to kill. But just observed their behaviors. Which included (behaviors) of local territorial pairs, family groups & trespasser coyotes vs territorial coyotes. I also observed transient/nomadic coyotes in a group. As they passed through territorial coyotes territory. I've read where said Biologist(s) claims were exactly what I have personally seen.

Where the bump in the road of knowledge/truth & understanding varies is. When a Biologist claims to know what a coyote is "expressing" as per it's vocals. How can any human prove such a claim. One guy on another outdoor internet site. Balked at my claim knowing one coyote from another. I took the time to let him know. I positively I.D'd those coyotes by their varied sizes, fur markings/colorations & where I seen those same coyotes routinely bed down for the day. Over & over again. I used high powered optics to educate myself. As I studied their behaviors.

Not speaking per say about Biologists in general. But another hunter's claim for example. A guy told me on an internet site. Coyotes don't jump fences. They go under or dive through them. I've personally seen that as well. But I've seen my share jump barbed fences with ease. He still balked at my claim.

One one site. A well known member. Who was a gov trapper & thought a lot of himself. Made fun of my remarks. That a coyote will use an old den site. Other than for rearing pups. As soon as he opened his yapper against my claim at that point. He lost his credibility with me. As a know it all, been there seen that coyote man.

As for your remarks about "penned coyotes". I know of 2 instances. Where coyotes have climbed 8' tall fences. Not much surprises me about their abilities.

 

[Treeshark]

We had an American Water Spaniel when I was a kid. During the day, he stayed in a dog kennel that was made of 6ft chain link fence. He would get out during the day, he figured out how to lift open the door closure.

My dad put a clasp on it that effectively locked it. Still, when we came home there he would be running around the yard- door still clasped. A few days later we finally witnessed him climbing the chain link fence like a monkey. Had to put a chain link roof on the enclosure to keep him in. Crazy.

Not sure this had anything to do with the thread… I just like that story I guess.

 

[Dakota79]

In your opinion can you make a legitimate pet from a coyote?

 

[longbow51]

As for your remarks about "penned coyotes". I know of 2 instances. Where coyotes have climbed 8' tall fences. Not much surprises me about their abilities.

I believe you. When I was a kid I had a beagle that could climb a 8" fence. Couldn't figure out how she was getting out. Finally sat up and caught her in the act.

 

[1oldcoyote]

In your opinion can you make a legitimate pet from a coyote?

In your opinion can you make a legitimate pet from a coyote?

I believe every animal of every specie. Has it's "own" specific behaviors & temperments. I've seen that in domestic dogs. I also believe that is true in every coyote, wolf or fox.

Speaking of wild canids. If adopted or owned early enough as pup. Can be domesticated to an extent. When I was a kid one of my older bro's & I. Were given 2 Red Fox kits. Both were around 7-8wks old. One(female) was docile, but the other kit a (male). Was a little gator & would tear into you if you tried to handle it. An old hunting bud of my Dad & I. Adopted a coyote pup. That a farmer dug out of a caved in den site. That was caved in from a farm tractor. That female coyote was reared outside with his acreage dog. Friend's two young children played with it & their family dog in the yard. That female coyote lived openly on his acreage & slept with their farm dog. Hunter friend also had penned up coyote sighthounds & 1 coyote trail hound dog. That wanted to fight that "pet coyote. His dog pens were 8' high. He had a large female coyote stag hound that he penned alone. She came into heat & that female coyote & her hated each other. So one day that coyote climbed that 8' fence & battled with that large female dog in it's pen. That ensuing fight. That large hound climbed that 8' fence to escape that coyotes wrath. Coyote was on her ass & climbed over the fence as well. They both continued to battle out on the yard. My friend's wife tried to break up that fight with a broom. As she is trying to break up that fight. That female coyote turned on her & attacked her & the dog. She quickly got into one of their yard vehicles. She got the dog in also. The coyote kept pacing around that car. Wanting to get at them. She called a farmer neighbor on her CB radio for help. He came & killed that coyote with a rifle. Regardless of a canine's behaviors/demeaner. Whether wild or domestic domestic. They are still animals & retain some degree of "wild" in their DNA.

 

[Hunter4Life78]

Only coyote and knowledge I have is from watching Looney Tunes.