Copper bullets

[ImBillT]

The idea that someone pierced a primer at a sub-maximal load in a Barnes manual does not suggest that anything was wrong with Barnes’s data.

A) never start anywhere near max with any bullet.

B) you may be able to exceed max loads without showing signs of excess pressure at times, other times you may never get very close to them. Barrels vary, chambers vary, brass varies, and bullets vary. Ever notice how different manuals show drastically different max charges and velocities? They all use different barrels, different reamers, different brass, and different lots of powder.

C) Expect extra wide variations in data using powders that come from any of the Hodgdon brands. Hodgdon completely changed what powder is in the bottle without changing the label more than once. They also almost never update data. Ever notice loads listed in CUP right next to loads listed in PSI? That’s because the load listed in CUP hasn’t been tested since they changed over to PSI...the powder in the can labeled IMR 4198 has.

 

[mtmuley]

I've noticed that a lot of the expert info on loading monos on this thread is coming from guys that have never loaded any. mtmuley

 

[Jbotto]

Yup. Barnes tech support even suggests looking at like weight bullets in load data from powder makers when Barnes specific info is not available.

I will back this up too as I just was in contact a few weeks ago about using their bullets with a powder that wasn’t listed in their data. The company rep suggested I start with readily available data for a similar weighted nosler bullet and watch for hard bolt lift.

 

[antelopedundee]

I've noticed that a lot of the expert info on loading monos on this thread is coming from guys that have never loaded any. mtmuley

How many does one have to load and shoot to make expert class?

 

[antelopedundee]

I will back this up too as I just was in contact a few weeks ago about using their bullets with a powder that wasn’t listed in their data. The company rep suggested I start with readily available data for a similar weighted nosler bullet and watch for hard bolt lift.

That makes sense. Unfortunately Barnes AFAICT doesn't have much of a selection of lead core bullets to make comparisons with. Did they perchance say to do the same for a cartridge like the 6.5-06 for which they apparently have NO data that I could find?

 

[leec270]

It was something called a GS custom bullet manufactured in Africa, that's all I know.
As for Barnes, its all @leec270 has used on UK deer for the past 10 years and like you has had great results.
Hope that helps
Cheers
Richard

I’ve shot a lot of game with Barnes probably into the 1000’s.

in think half the problem is their loads are too hot and their being driven too fast.

I loaded for the 6.5x55 and 270win and speed was 2850-2900fps and only has 2 instances where bullets penciled straight through and that was 2 bullets from the same batch of 140gn Barnes tsx both from the same batch.

I now use a copper alloy bullet from Slovakia called the fox hunter, I highly recommend them, I buy the factory offering but they also cater for the home loader.

 

[mtmuley]

How many does one have to load and shoot to make expert class?

More than zero would be a good start. mtmuley

 

[antelopedundee]

More than zero would be a good start. mtmuley

I don't see how taking a known load, backing off 3 grains and seating a different bullet elevates one to expert status, but if that's what it takes I could be an expert before this post gets posted. Barnes recommends seating them .050 short of the lands. Does that generally hold true?

 

[mtmuley]

I'm not an expert. Loaded 225 grain TTSX Barnes in a .338 RUM, seated mag length. Tough to get near the lands in a factory chamber. Fouled terribly so I moved to E-Tips. I've loaded a lot of Hammers. mtmuley

 

[Don Fischer]

I don't see how taking a known load, backing off 3 grains and seating a different bullet elevates one to expert status, but if that's what it takes I could be an expert before this post gets posted. Barnes recommends seating them .050 short of the lands. Does that generally hold true?

I wonder if Barnes loads their factory ammo .050 off the lands?

 

[Schism]

I already have loads worked up. I have a bunch of the SSTs that I won't use on game so I'll use them to load sighters, practice, etc. I've substituted bullets of equal weight but different brand at times with no ill effects. Load data varies enough by bullet, powder manufacturer such that one guy's max load is another guy's start load. I've never used all copper bullets so I'd do a bit of homework first. Also, I've never seen loading tables based on bullet length. It's almost always weight.

You didn't mention backing off 3 grains and working back up in the post above. Substituting one bullet for another without reworking the load is bad information. You may not have had any ill effects but there isn't a quality loading resource on the planet that would suggest swapping bullets is a good practice to develop accurate loads, let alone be even remotely safe.

 

[antelopedundee]

I wonder if Barnes loads their factory ammo .050 off the lands?

Since they don't know in what kind of rifle it will be used in the probably seat to some standard COL or maybe based on some standard chamber dimensions.

I wonder if anyone has played with taking "factory" and pulling the bullets out a bit and reseating them to various depths to confirm that that's true.

 

[antelopedundee]

when they person completely doesn’t understand and misses the point.

go ahead and take a 140 grain copper bullet and load it by 140 traditional lead core bullet data. Let me know how that works out for you.

I have a 6.5-06 AI with enough throat erosion that I could probably get away with doing that.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Barnes recommends seating them .050 short of the lands. Does that generally hold true?

I've messed with the seating depth of TTSX in 4 different cartridges and haven't seen much improvement either way - at least not improvement I would worry about for a hunting load. For new TTSX loads I will just stick to 0.050" and save some time and bullets.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I wonder if Barnes loads their factory ammo .050 off the lands?

They load them to SAAMI COAL to fit factory mags just like most other factory ammo - as lands are different for every rifle.

 

[ShadowFast1]

When I was working up my .308 TTSX load I worked from .030" to .040" to .050". The rifle seemed to like .050" just a little bit better so that's what I stuck with. And it ended up being close to Barnes recommended COAL in their load data.