Common Sense From Connell

[BigHornRam]

Nothing new in that article, people on this board have been saying the same thing for a long time.

Management costs money, when Congress strips funding from land management agencies for 2 decades, in a shock to absolutely nobody, management stops happening. When precious few management dollars are diverted to fight fire, management doesn't happen either.

Imagine that?

Buzz,

How much money did the USFS receive from the stimulus bill? What management was accomplished with this funding?

Does endless litigation also stop management from happening?

I think there is a lot of interesting information in the article for open minded readers.

 

[BigHornRam]

Here's some management happening.........
http://www.kpax.com/story/32483599/thinning-work-begins-in-upper-rattlesnake-area

 

[shoots-straight]

I couldn't find the costs for this project. If a fire took place there costs would be associated with fighting it. Any thoughts on the cost of this thing? How long until it's needed again?

 

[BigHornRam]

Not a lot of detailed information on the Marshall Woods Project link, Shoots.

Probably best to call the Lolo Forest Service office to have your questions answered.

Lolo National Forest Supervisor's Office
24 Fort Missoula Road
Missoula MT 59804
406-329-3750

 

[BigHornRam]

Here's some cutting edge technology that might help restoration projects pay their way, create jobs (tax revenue that can go towards funding public land management), and create valuable products (again more tax revenue). Positive thinking.

http://www.sciencealert.com/scienti...nsparent-wood-that-can-build-stronger-windows

 

[BigHornRam]

Buzz,

Doesn't look like you are wanting answer my question about USFS funding through the 2009 stimulus bill. So here is what I came up for proposed spending amounts..........



Much of the funding is directed towards construction, repair or maintenance or habitat restoration on federal public lands. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) is targeted to get $115 million for construction, while the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) will receive $180 million and the National Park Service (NPS) will receive $589 million. Resource and land-management programs also received substantial new funds including $165 million for FWS, $125 million for BLM and $146 million for NPS. A combined Capital Improvement and Maintenance fund for the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) was allocated $650 million. In general, each agency will be using the stimulus funding in these accounts to address deferred maintenance and capital improvements, energy conservation, trail maintenance, watershed improvement, and more.

Both the BLM and USFS are slated to get funding for wildland fire management. The BLM will receive $15 million, whereas the USFS will receive $500 million. Of the USFS funding, half will be dedicated to hazardous fuel reduction, forest health protection, rehabilitation and hazard mitigation on federal lands, and the other half will be dedicated towards cooperative efforts on state and private lands. Funded through the Federal Highway Administration, the Department of Interior land management agencies also are to receive funding for road construction or improvement—$170 million for the NPS, $60 million for the USFS, and $10 million for the FWS.

 

[BigHornRam]

So I had a difficult time finding any links to what work was actually accomplished with these funds. I did find this link however

CanNEPAandStimulusBillCoexist.pdf

https://www.alexandriava.gov/.../CanNEPAandStimulusBillCoexist.pdf

Interesting read. I did notice that Marshall Woods project was started in 2009 (was Lolo National Forest hoping to use stimulus dollars for this project?) Work is finally starting to happen in 2016. Do you find this slow process acceptable?

 

[1_pointer]

I know some of the stimulus money was spent on fuels reduction projects in No. Utah. The majority of those projects was for Utah juniper thinning though some was spent on brush reduction and seeding. I cannot recall if any was spent on fire rehabilitation, which is a separate process and funding mechanism from fire stabilization. Some problems were that NEPA and archaeology reviews could not meet the funding deadlines.

 

[tjones]

Work a little slow Paul?

 

[BigHornRam]

Pointer,

It would be nice to find a link to what was accomplished by the USFS with stimulus funds. Not a lot to ask for in todays computer age.


Here are a couple pictures taken from the Marshall Woods project link that shows what good management can look on our NF's.

 

[1_pointer]

BHR- That information could probably be had with a FOIA request... Might have to submit one for each Ranger District you are interested in though.

 

[BigHornRam]

Watched this one blow up from across the valley Sunday afternoon shortly after it started. I've never seen a fire take off like this one did.

http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/wild...rows-to-over-9900-acres-15-contained/43674874

Guess the pending Westside forest management project is now toast.

 

[BuzzH]

Watched this one blow up from across the valley Sunday afternoon shortly after it started. I've never seen a fire take off like this one did.

I have, many times. While not good, not close to 120,000+ acres in about 12 hours. Canyon Creek fire, 1988.

 

[----]

I have, many times. While not good, not close to 120,000+ acres in about 12 hours. Canyon Creek fire, 1988.

Drove me to the Google. Pretty amazing.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/ye...cle_2d609470-0092-11e3-ace4-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[BuzzH]

Drove me to the Google. Pretty amazing.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/ye...cle_2d609470-0092-11e3-ace4-001a4bcf887a.html

Yeah, it was a pretty tough year, that fire was an absolute monster. I remember the day it made that big run very well...literally not a damn thing to do but get out of the way and watch.

IIRC, I was initial attack on 26 fires that season, many large ones. That entire year was pretty much unprecedented in the fire behavior realm. I fought fire another 7 years after, and saw nothing like what happened in '88 and nothing remotely like what happened on that Canyon Creek fire.

I also remember from early May to the end of September I had 5 days off work, including one stretch of 57 consecutive days of work.

 

[JLS]

Drove me to the Google. Pretty amazing.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/ye...cle_2d609470-0092-11e3-ace4-001a4bcf887a.html

What is really amazing is the difference that slope aspect makes in fire behavior. Falls Creek, which the fire burned down, burned so hot that even now there is very little conifer regeneration. The ridgetops where it moved really fast are now covered with 8-10 foot lodgepoles.

 

[BigHornRam]

The point I was trying to make Buzz, was how fast this fire went from no fire to inferno. People had little time to evacuate.

Slope aspect has a lot to do with regeneration as well JLS. An exposed south facing slope gets so hot in summer that small seedlings usually die before they can get established.

Good link Randy.

 

[JLS]

Looking off into Falls Creek.