College costs

[MT Bound]

I've just had 2 kids finish college, wllm's table is pretty accurate more or less, but as been said, there are alot of variables. IMO a trade skill is much more worth the money what you'll make over the years and not putting yourself or kids in debt for life.

We saved modestly in 529 and Coverdell ESA's which helped, but the kids also worked their butts off in HS & college and received modest scholarships and grants. Typically my yearly contribution was <$15k, grants and scholarships covered the rest, and we also had them take the offered federal loans so we weren't giving them a total free ride.

Good luck, there's many avenues out there kids nowadays can take if college isn't a good fit for them, or it might be the right path for them, that's what needs to be figured out.

 

[Irrelevant]

and we've just been comparing the trades to the sciences (honest workers)... if we factor in finance it's not even close

 

[westbranch]

Interesting discussion. I have BS and MS degrees and professional certifications for my career and it can be done through state schools relatively cheaply. I paid for my own college through loans, but was also eligible for Pell Grants and subsidized federal loans due to parents low income/assets. I worked 25-30 hrs a week to partially cover rent/beer, I also did study abroad programs and over borrowed for those. Graduated in 2010 from undergrad $30k in student loans from a midwest state school and starting salaries were about $50k. Could have came out cheaper, but with student loans < starting salary most people should be able to have those paid off in <5 years. My MS was from a private school and doubled by student loans. Opened up more opportunities that it turned out I had no interest in, so an expensive learning experience.

I have friends/acquittances that went to big companies with the same background that are making 50-100% more than I am but have way less autonomy in their lives. Having your kids talk to experienced people in the fields that interest them would be key.

In my job I know a lot more about people's actual comp then most do, but it's also a biased selection for outliers. Some of the most surprising comp numbers I see come from sales. A lot of business owners out there aren't really making much more than they would working for someone else.

 

[cedahm]

Trades: Totally anecdotal, but I haven't met or heard of any one who is very successful (six figures) in the trades that didn't have a parent in them. I'm not saying those individuals didn't put in hard work, but they just as much road their connections as a econ major from a east coast reputable school who gets their first job where their dad works.



At this point I have seen people become wildly successful with all kinds of degrees, folks who would credit their degree with some of there success. English, Geology, Anthropology, Psych, Geography, Spanish, etc. All making well above $300k a year. I have also have seen crashing failure, I have a hard time finding a rhyme or reason to the outcomes, both categories smart/hard working folks. Same with trades, some people I know doing very well others really struggling.

IME, the bolded and slightly edited portion above is the biggest single differentiator. Network/connections.

If you have a bachelor's degree from a reputable school and you actively participated in the program (e.g. not just getting A's in Calc/Econ/etc -but getting into co-ops and real-world tactical classes in your 'focus' years) your total comp ceiling is much, much higher and probability of getting close to that ceiling is high as well. You're also much more fungible as a member of the workforce. A lineman may pull in bank, but those skills are not highly transferrable to other industries. For a lot of folks, that isn't a concern, but your universe of 'what do I want to do with my life?' is a lot larger with a broader skillset and, IMO it extends beyond a pure financial decision.

The firm I recently left used the term 'network' in almost all communications and career building exercises. To the point where I got sick of hearing it, but it is undeniably true that the wider and deeper your professional network is, the higher the long-term ceiling of both finances and quality of life can be.

 

[westbranch]

and we've just been comparing the trades to the sciences (honest workers)... if we factor in finance it's not even close

Just like many of the other jobs mentioned or lineman making $300k+ a year, most finance majors are not going to make it into IB at a large bank or hedge fund. They will end up at a large F500 company and work their way up through a corporate finance department or similar. Still a decent living, but the vast majority will not make much more $100k in today's dollars.

 

[Irrelevant]

Just like many of the other jobs mentioned or lineman making $300k+ a year, most finance majors are not going to make it into IB at a large bank or hedge fund. They will end up at a large F500 company and work their way up through a corporate finance department or similar. Still a decent living, but the vast majority will not make much more $100k in today's dollars.

Apparently I should have actually looked into that first.

 

[BuzzH]

How many of you got help from your parents to pay for school?
At the end of the day I think I might just rather weld wet pipe in a ditch than sit through the lifetime of math classes with my good boy face on required to be an electrical engineer.
Different strokes for different folks.
If you kid’s an irresponsible asshole prob don’t encourage them to take on 50k+ of unsecured debt for a piece of paper that might get them a job that they’re not sure they’re gonna like.
But definitely make them get a full time job.

I got to live at home, but paid for my own college playing pulaski motor and going either 2 quarters or 1 semester a year. Got through in 6 years.

My parents paid ZERO of my tuition and I took out ZERO in loans.

I just cant fathom someone taking out a home equity line of credit to pay for their kids college, that's insane.

 

[Lilhowie83]

I got to live at home, but paid for my own college playing pulaski motor and going either 2 quarters or 1 semester a year. Got through in 6 years.

My parents paid ZERO of my tuition and I took out ZERO in loans.

I just cant fathom someone taking out a home equity line of credit to pay for their kids college, that's insane.

I like the term pulaski motor!

 

[Addicting]

Cost of education
Amount covered by GI bill
Amount you make while serving

Free if you use the programs available to you. Take as many classes while your in as possible, transfer your military transcripts for credit, do a 2 year stint in the guard so you keep the 4000 federal while you finish. GI bill will pick up the rest. Ivy League may exceed the coverage, but any state school it covers.

77,000 in tuition
4000 federal dollars per year if your still in

Amount you make while serving has way too many factors. This is your full time job and 18-22 year olds don’t save money. It’s spent at the bar or some other dumb off post thing.

The Post-9/11 GI Bill also pays a Monthly Housing Allowance based on the ZIP code of the location of the school or campus you are attending the majority of your classes. This stipend currently averages $1,833 but can exceed $2,700 depending on where you go to school.

I highly doubt a student going full time working a part time job is going to make $1,833 a month.

 

[Cornell2012]

... but thank god I took AP Calculus.... I mean gosh, so useful.

On a serious note, AP is a great option if you have a decent teacher in school. I think I graduated HS with something like 29 credits from AP classes. I wasn't able to use all of them towards my major, but the credits I did use allowed me to take other interesting classes and/or lighten my work load in the harder semesters. Had I picked a major that was less strict about AP credits, I would have been able to graduate in 3 years instead of 4. (Not surprisingly, the engineering program wanted to make sure you actually knew the foundational material that the whole program was based on.)

 

[Addicting]

Also for the Military, pick a branch that has the field you intend to study. The military has a version of almost everything you can imagine in a functional city. Dentist, Doctors, PA, Nurses, vertical and horizontal Engineers, Veterinarians, Police, Fire, Culinary, everything Aeronautical…

Some of those require your degree first. However, each of those has a enlisted assistant. The enlisted assistant gets a ton of training and college credits as well.

We are not all shooters, it literally takes a Army of support personnel to keep the shooters moving.

 

[Willy Dee]

On a serious note, AP is a great option if you have a decent teacher in school. I think I graduated HS with something like 29 credits from AP classes. I wasn't able to use all of them towards my major, but the credits I did use allowed me to take other interesting classes and/or lighten my work load in the harder semesters. Had I picked a major that was less strict about AP credits, I would have been able to graduate in 3 years instead of 4. (Not surprisingly, the engineering program wanted to make sure you actually knew the foundational material that the whole program was based on.)

AP can be useful ( I teach AP classes). However, less colleges are accepting them as credit. I suspect College Board manipulates the AP test scores too much for them to be a consistent measure of aptitude. I encourage many of my AP students to pursue dual enrollment options at local colleges. This provides college credit for free. Some high schools do not push this enough.

 

[stealthy_bowman]

Realizing there are MANY variables, just trying to get a sense for what is a good average target balance in 529 plans for out of state college tuition 4 to 6 years out from now. Looking for real world responses to this problem - what are people paying? I have two kids, very good students, non-athletes, who likely will go out of state to a 4-year public university. We have saved a modest amount for each child so far and feel extremely blessed to have been able to do that, but suspect we are well below what is "recommended" by the "experts". Based on our combined family income, we may not be eligible for a great deal of needs-based support (even though cost of living in our region is at the upper end of the spectrum). The general internet is not confidence inspiring (all over the map) and people I know are so damn tight lipped these days with their salary, debt, expenses , etc in order to perpetuate their facebook "best life" image.... hard to get the straight skinny on what is happening to real people in real life.

I haven’t read all the responses so I do not know whether anyone raised this point already, but think long and hard before sending your kids to out of state public university over your in-state options. Generally speaking, there is really little difference, in terms of outcomes, in the meaty part of the curve of state universities. Therefore, your in-state option is generally the best bet. Now, if your kids are stellar students and get get into truly elite schools, then that will make a difference and the out if state costs could be worth it. Generally though, for normal folks, in-state universities are great options.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

AP can be useful ( I teach AP classes). However, less colleges are accepting them as credit. I suspect College Board manipulates the AP test scores too much for them to be a consistent measure of aptitude. I encourage many of my AP students to pursue dual enrollment options at local colleges. This provides college credit for free. Some high schools do not push this enough.

I took a mix of both, my college didn't accept dual enrollment but would and still accepts APs if you got a 5 and 4s for a few subject.

I think for most students you're spot on and they should take as many dual enrollment courses as possible.

 

[Pucky Freak]

This is dated info as I graduated HS in ‘02, but a lot of the principles remain the same.

Private college price tag: $115k
$28k in deductions for AP classes, summer community college classes, and 3 free J-terms
$50k in scholarships
$10k from grandparents/parents
$10k savings from working part-time in HS
$17k loan, paid off in 2006 immediately after getting a job.

I worked every summer and during school, which covered all my living expenses.

Some of my classmates didn’t work during school, took out extra loans for living expenses, changed majors, etc. and are still paying on their 100k+ loans.

There are unlimited strategies to cobbling together an affordable degree or training program. The bottom line is you need a plan where the math adds up. Way to many teens blindly signing up for mountains of debt with no plan, and no parental guidance.

 

[DouglasR]

I just cant fathom someone taking out a home equity line of credit to pay for their kids college, that's insane.

I guess if I had kids of my own and they seemed to have a good plan and desire to go to school I could fathom it.
But at the same time I’m definitely calling #westernprivilege on the guys on here who had help.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I guess if I had kids of my own and they seemed to have a good plan and desire to go to school I could fathom it.
But at the same time I’m definitely calling #westernprivilege on the guys on here who had help.

Sooo

Can of worms, but Hotchkiss, Deerfield, Andover, St. Paul’s, etc all run about 65k a year so while us plebs in the middle-class are debating military v. trades school v. Public in-state the 1% are paying 250k per kid on high school.

 

[Nick87]

I don’t think people realize how much some in the trades make. Especially when salary comparison tools mainly show base salary. Sure, their $59/hr is pretty good, but it’s the call out pay, overtime, double time and per diem, etc where they’re making their money.

Lot of truth to that. First year in the trade out of high school I made over 100k. No per diem just lots of o/t. I was 19 could have paid for college in full in a couple years. Most kids out of high school aren't willing to do 70 to 80 hour weeks though either I don't think.

 

[MTGomer]

Apparently I should have actually looked into that first.
View attachment 199809

this is really interesting. Chem E is known to pay well, but it’s incredible how tight the job market is. My SIL was with Exxon for a while, getting in straight from college after an internship. after putting in some years, she tried to leave for over a year applying at dozens of places and could hardly get an interview.
I know a couple other guys through the mining industry that have had a very rough time moving around too.

It pays but it’s not like civil where there’s 1000 jobs.

 

[Irrelevant]

this is really interesting. Chem E is known to pay well, but it’s incredible how tight the job market is. My SIL was with Exxon for a while, getting in straight from college after an internship. after putting in some years, she tried to leave for over a year applying at dozens of places and could hardly get an interview.
I know a couple other guys through the mining industry that have had a very rough time moving around too.

It pays but it’s not like civil where there’s 1000 jobs.

Almost every MD I know got a ChemE undergrad degree, maybe that's factoring in?