Brad Molner - Elect The MT Fish and Game Commission

[Ben Lamb]

I also have to wonder what would have been the backlash if the commission wouldn’t have gone in and generally “fixed” the directors proposals? There would have been a lot of angry sportsman but that’s about it. Maybe a ballot initiative? Just seems like if the governor would have picked a group of tyrants than Montanans would have been up crap creek without a paddle. I would prefer an elected commission with terms to keep a more diverse group of commissioners in place and keep them from getting “Andrew McKean’d” when the admin turnsover

Extremely fair point.

There's a lot that's wrong statutorily with Montana's game management system, and that's a bipartisan failure, btw. I wouldn't take an initiative off the table for 24 at all though. But the commission deserves a chance to be good, and we owe it to that commission to try and work with them in order to affect the outcomes, and work towards a better future for everyone. Same with PLPW, etc.

Bob Ream got the same treatment that Andrew did. Robin Cunningham got railroaded out of the Board of Outfitters by MOGA, etc. We see nominees get spiked all the time at the federal level, and we tend to rejoice when it's our "enemies," and get angry when it's our "friends." Just because resident hunters lost a powerful ally during the election (Governor) doesn't mean we shouldn't try to work with the administration. It means we need to be thoughtful in how we approach them. We do know that a kind, thoughtful approach does change outcomes, so rather than continue to seek solutions out of anger, I think it makes more sense to develop relationships with the Commission and work with them to affect the changes we would like to see, and to work with the legislature as best we can to do the same.

Or, as someone so eloquently pointed out:

 

[rogerthat]

The ever present political and ideological decisions by the Governor and the Legislature are what have been adversely impacting viable and professional wildlife management and hunting regulations and policies in the best interests of wildlife and Montana's valued hunting legacy.

That’s definitely a huge problem but if we are being 100% honest some of it is a finite resource (arguably declining resource - mule deer) bumping up against population growth and entrenched general season structures steeped in tradition. We can’t blame it all on politicians

 

[Straight Arrow]

That’s definitely a huge problem but if we are being 100% honest some of it is a finite resource (arguably declining resource - mule deer) bumping up against population growth and entrenched general season structures steeped in tradition. We can’t blame it all on politicians

Agreed! However this thread's discussion is that regarding the political appointment process and ramifications, not the conditions on the ground which you accurately describe.
The opportunity-driven "general season structures steeped in tradition" are an element of the political stalemate.

 

[Ben Lamb]

but I really like the idea of and am optimistic about what the MT Citizens Elk Coalition can do.

Randy published this yesterday, FYI: https://hunttalk.libsyn.com/elk-advocacy-from-the-grassroots

It's worth a listen too.

I have been kind of surprised by the amount of folks I know who are republicans who are pissed about what has been proposed and what has happened. People really active in the party. And yet, they would choose Gianforte all over again if they had to , and certainly will in 2 years. It's a damn conundrum, but somewhere in there may be our best hope and our best allies. Though we have seen some great movement in the sporting community against some of these shit ideas in the last two years, I am concerned about how realistic it is that we can hold fast against future waves. History shows that grandiose claims about political parties don't hold, and the populace tends to swing here and there, but Democrats are so unpopular, and the pool of candidates from which they have to choose outside of a few, are so poisoned, it just seems like the bed we have been laying in is the one we will be for a while. I suppose the answer to that is to quit bellyaching and to get in the fight or get out of the way.

I'm not. The hyper-partisans like to paint these issues in their frame, but the reality is that it doesn't matter what you think about Abortion, federal deficits, or any of the social and cultural issues that party politicians like to use to divide us, because we all know what happens in the woods, or in camp - hunters are conservationists.

Making these issues partisan is a huge mistake from any angle. Keeping these issues relevant to as many people as possible is how we turn the tide against the less thoughtful political class, and restore some sense of decorum, statesmanship and fraternity in the body and in our politics. When we speak of issues, and we actually get outside of our own bubbles and talk with people we traditionally fight with, I think you start to see that there's less differences between people than what the press would like us to believe.

Like it or not, the people who got elected in 2020 are duly elected and hold legitimate power. Tilting at windmills might feel good, but at the end of the run, the windmill still stands, and you've been lifted off your horse.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Randy published this yesterday, FYI: https://hunttalk.libsyn.com/elk-advocacy-from-the-grassroots

It's worth a listen too.



I'm not. The hyper-partisans like to paint these issues in their frame, but the reality is that it doesn't matter what you think about Abortion, federal deficits, or any of the social and cultural issues that party politicians like to use to divide us, because we all know what happens in the woods, or in camp - hunters are conservationists.

Making these issues partisan is a huge mistake from any angle. Keeping these issues relevant to as many people as possible is how we turn the tide against the less thoughtful political class, and restore some sense of decorum, statesmanship and fraternity in the body and in our politics. When we speak of issues, and we actually get outside of our own bubbles and talk with people we traditionally fight with, I think you start to see that there's less differences between people than what the press would like us to believe.

Like it or not, the people who got elected in 2020 are duly elected and hold legitimate power. Tilting at windmills might feel good, but at the end of the run, the windmill still stands, and you've been lifted off your horse.

You may be right. But at what point should we stop bending over and instead stand up, turn around, and face the ones sticking it up our butts? Or should we just let them go on doing it while making them feel good about it in hopes they'll be easier on us while we're getting screwed? Maybe they'll think we enjoy it and just find more ways to put it to Montana's fish and game. For me the point of no further cajoling was when four landed aristocrats were guaranteed seats on the commission. Any administration that would do that just doesn't give a shit about managing wildlife for all Montanans ... or for the benefit of wildlife. Useless.

 

[Straight Arrow]

... the people who got elected in 2020 are duly elected and hold legitimate power.

Not according to the prevalent stance of the GOP. Rampant widespread election fraud! STOP THE STEAL!

MT Republicans try again for special session to investigate elections. (A headline in the Helena IR today.)​

 

[OntarioHunter]

Not according to the prevalent stance of the GOP. Rampant widespread election fraud! STOP THE STEAL!

MT Republicans try again for special session to investigate elections. (A headline in the Helena IR today.)​

Really? Wow, that is embarrassing.

 

[DFS]

@Ben Lamb The powerful ally (governor) hasn’t done shit for wildlife for 30 years. I’m not complaining for the last year I’ve never seen anything improve in 30 years. I’m saying there has to be a different path forward for meaningful changes, electing the commission seems like a start.

 

[Ben Lamb]

@Ben Lamb The powerful ally (governor) hasn’t done shit for wildlife for 30 years. I’m not complaining for the last year I’ve never seen anything improve in 30 years. I’m saying there has to be a different path forward for meaningful changes, electing the commission seems like a start.

I'm happy to provide a list of things that were really good that happened.

Electing the commission is literally mainlining politics into wildlife management.

 

[DFS]

I'm happy to provide a list of things that were really good that happened.

Electing the commission is literally mainlining politics into wildlife management.

Which is exactly what is happening now. Only now people have to vote on if it’s ok to let men play womens sports or use their bathroom. Where does wildlife rate on how the majority of people vote. It’s high for me but a lot it isn’t. I shouldn’t be choosing how wildlife is managed when I vote on other major issues.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I shouldn’t be choosing how wildlife is managed when I vote on other major issues.

You and every other person in the vast majority of Democratic Republics currently do. It's literally the basis of our form of Government since the Athenians first developed Democracy. These people have told you repeatedly how they will vote, and what bills they will bring (For example, Sen, Molnar is yet again bringing a crossbow bill that will suck up thousands of hours of time from volunteers, while also weakening our ability to fight against bad efforts elsewhere or push good efforts forward). The idea that the people should be allowed to be lazy and spoon fed their politics to them is how we end up losing our nation. Fighting to ensure that reasonable people of good and honest intent are in power while working within a system we currently have, and IS WORKING FOR US, is poor form.

Which is exactly what is happening now.

Yet we just were able to take those political appointees and get them to a spot that creates opportunity for better management. So what's the bitch if the commission is working with us? Is it that we just don't like Greg Gianforte?

 

[DFS]

You and every other person in the vast majority of Democratic Republics currently do. It's literally the basis of our form of Government since the Athenians first developed Democracy. These people have told you repeatedly how they will vote, and what bills they will bring (For example, Sen, Molnar is yet again bringing a crossbow bill that will suck up thousands of hours of time from volunteers, while also weakening our ability to fight against bad efforts elsewhere or push good efforts forward). The idea that the people should be allowed to be lazy and spoon fed their politics to them is how we end up losing our nation. Fighting to ensure that reasonable people of good and honest intent are in power while working within a system we currently have, and IS WORKING FOR US, is poor form.



Yet we just were able to take those political appointees and get them to a spot that creates opportunity for better management. So what's the bitch if the commission is working with us? Is it that we just don't like Greg Gianforte?

Thanks for the insight. I just would like to see a path forward for better management instead of fighting to keep the status quo (which sucks and is rapidly getting worse).

 

[Irrelevant]

Electing the commission is literally mainlining politics into wildlife management.

I would encourage you to watch WDFW commission meetings and tell me they're not entirely political. There is exactly zero, non-political discussion. Why would any gov not appoint members based on politics, there's no incentive to do otherwise.

I agree that voting for them also isn't going to help. But I can't think of anything that will help keep politics out of wildlife management.

 

[Ben Lamb]

But I can't think of anything that will help keep politics out of wildlife management.

I agree that you will never 100% take politics out of wildlife management, but you can curtail it's influence, and some states have done just this.

Wyoming, Colorado, and a few others do not allow the Legislature to set Game agency budgets specifically for this reason.

Michigan passed Prop G in 1996.

There are more examples, but the overriding principle is that the power of the Legislature must be curtailed to ensure that the politics of the day do not supersede the management of wildlife for future generations. There are no other states that I am aware of that have the level of bills that are introduced into their legislature like Montana does. Over 400 bills in 6 sessions, and that doesn't count the attempts to undermine public lands, the FWP or DNRC budget, Habitat Montana, etc.

Political power is a gift of the people. It is up to the people to either take that power back, or hand it completely over to politicians. I choose to retain my power as a citizen of the United States of America.

 

[Irrelevant]

Political power is a gift of the people. It is up to the people to either take that power back, or hand it completely over to politicians. I choose to retain my power as a citizen of the United States of America.

Sure seems like you'd support actually electing these people then.

 

[DFS]

I agree that you will never 100% take politics out of wildlife management, but you can curtail it's influence, and some states have done just this.

Wyoming, Colorado, and a few others do not allow the Legislature to set Game agency budgets specifically for this reason.

Michigan passed Prop G in 1996.

There are more examples, but the overriding principle is that the power of the Legislature must be curtailed to ensure that the politics of the day do not supersede the management of wildlife for future generations. There are no other states that I am aware of that have the level of bills that are introduced into their legislature like Montana does. Over 400 bills in 6 sessions, and that doesn't count the attempts to undermine public lands, the FWP or DNRC budget, Habitat Montana, etc.

Political power is a gift of the people. It is up to the people to either take that power back, or hand it completely over to politicians. I choose to retain my power as a citizen of the United States of America.

I don’t feel very powerful. Wish I could elect a commissioner with like minded views on management.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Sure seems like you'd support actually electing these people then.

Nope. I support a constitutional republican form of government that places the ultimate power in the people, while recognizing the need of a strong executive to carry out the laws of the state and the nation.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I don’t feel very powerful. Wish I could elect a commissioner with like minded views on management.

Wilk's Brothers feel the same way right now. How you gonna compete with independent expenditures funded by billionaires on Commissioners that are all about god, guns and glory?

 

[Irrelevant]

Wilk's Brothers feel the same way right now. How you gonna compete with independent expenditures funded by billionaires on Commissioners that are all about god, guns and glory?

1. If that's your argument then tell me how that changes just because you jump up from a regional level to a state level?
2. If nothing else the wilks have to rig 7 elections instead of 1, plus they still have to rig the 1. We'll win through attrition!

You yourself have said numerous times that grassroots politics work. I'm still struggling why that's not applicable here.

 

[Ben Lamb]

1. If that's your argument then tell me how that changes just because you jump up from a regional level to a state level?
2. If nothing else the wilks have to rig 7 elections instead of 1, plus they still have to rig the 1. We'll win through attrition!

You yourself have said numerous times that grassroots politics work. I'm still struggling why that's not applicable here.

You do understand that 7 more races don't hurt the Wilk's financially at all, right? They just write a check, and get Chuck Denowh to run the campaign.

It's always funny to me when people who aren't the ones grinding out 100 hour weeks working on campaigns think things like "we can win by attrition!" That literally never happens.