Blue Lives Matter

[VikingsGuy]

I really appreciate your passion for love and hugs but it carries a certain amount of naivety. I to grew up in a single parent household from the age of eight (3 brothers), and my mother did her best, I thank her often for her struggles.

However, two parent households on the whole are better than one. When you look at the trend in America, and specifically the black population, the amount of single parent households is frightening: Blacks 75%, Hispanic 58%, White 37% and Asian 21% (2014-2018).

Yup - and unless you are saying Blacks are genetically incapable of maintaining a nuclear family, then curious and compassionate folks would imagine something is wrong with a system that generates this result. Thomas Sowell had some interesting writings about the effect of the Great Society welfare programs (which were not designed or enacted by black Americans) and the reduction of the role of religion in communities as it relates to these shocking numbers.

 

[Handlebar]

You actually think people have been "trying" to do that? Do you think people want to be gay? Do you think single mothers want to be single mothers? Do you think Mixed race families sought that out?

This is the disconnect many people have. It's the difference between wanting a circumstance, and making the best of one. It reminds me of people who look down on those with a disability. As if they asked for it.

As a matter of policy, we have disincentivized a two-parent home. Most of these changes were made with the desire to help. We have made it easier for men not to honor their obligations. Sen Daniel Patrick Monihan talked about this in his report from the 1960s. Out of wedlock birth has increased tremendously since the early sixties, If you can not see the ramifications then you are blind. Culturally through movies and t.v. shows and print media we have glorified the single parent. As the child of a single mom, many of those stereotypes are true the toughness resourcefulness etc. The financial burdens, the limited interaction with ones child due to work, and other obligations place a toll on both parent and child. The lack of a male role model has in my opinion led to disastrous consequences. This, in my belief, is one of the reasons we see so many young boys/men making horrible lifestyle choices and ending up on a bad path. I believe that there are other studies that indicate this as well. I obviously do not have data on every single parent-child in the USA so I do not meet the burden of proof that was placed on me earlier.
I never said nor insinuated anything about mixed families or gay parents etc, that is a straw man argument. Likening my comment to suggesting that telling someone with a disability that they asked for it is beyond the pale.
I believe that there are bad cops out there, I also think we have a cultural problem as well. I do not subscribe to systemic racism.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

I really appreciate your passion for love and hugs but it carries a certain amount of naivety. I to grew up in a single parent household from the age of eight (3 brothers), and my mother did her best, I thank her often for her struggles.

However, two parent households on the whole are better than one. When you look at the trend in America, and specifically the black population, the amount of single parent households is frightening: Blacks 75%, Hispanic 58%, White 37% and Asian 21% (2014-2018).

I grew up in a single parent household as well. I watched my parents divorce not once, but twice. We moved 37 times before I left home for college. Domestic violence make up some of my earliest memories.

I'm sure like your mom, mine was amazing. However, she was better off without my dad around. And that was my point. That people like her and your mom need our support. They don't need to be told they're "doing it wrong" and they would be better off with a husband.

No naivete' here my friend. Anything but in fact.

Fatherless homes IMO are the #1 problem our nation faces. It is what leads to everything we're seeing today. I understand that. But we also need to make sure we show equal support for those who don't get that option or choose that option.

I'm not making myself clear and I apologize for that. It's a complicated issue. The way the BLM goal was taken out of context so it could be attacked just rubbed me wrong.

I also apologize if we're arguing past one another, about different things. I'm guilty of that too.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I do not subscribe to systemic racism.

So what do you subscribe to? Great Society welfare programs are a system designed and enacted by whites. Redlining was (and subtly ’is’) a system designed and enacted by whites. Gerrymandering is a system designed and enacted by whites. The over incarceration of non-violent drug crimes (especially marijuana) is a system designed and enacted by whites. The defunding of public schools in the South to avoid desegregation was a system designed and enacted by whites. The arresting and charging of marijuana possession rates between young black and young whites is a ’system’ largely enforced by whites. The “Southern Strategy” created systems designed and enacted by whites. The content of mainstream movies, television and video games are a ‘system’ designed and enacted by whites. Etc. etc. etc. I do believe all of this has added up. Would be nice if we worked on some of this rather than just throwing more dumb a** small time weed dealers in federal prisons.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

So what do you subscribe to? Great Society welfare programs are a system designed and enacted by whites. Redlining was (subtly ’is’) as system designed and enacted by whites. Gerrymandering is a system designed and enacted by whites. The over incarceration of non-violent drug crimes (especially marijuana) is a system designed and enacted by whites. The defunding of public schools in the South to avoid desegregation was a system designed and enacted by whites. The arresting and charging of marijuana possession rates between young black and young whites is a ’system’ largely enforced by whites. The “Southern Strategy” created systems designed and enacted by whites. The content of mainstream movies, television and video games are a ‘system’ designed and enacted by whites. Etc. etc. etc. I do believe all of this has added up. Would be nice if we worked on some of this rather than just throwing more dumb a** small time weed dealers in federal prisons.

A lot of whites don't want to recognize these things because they can't deal with the sense of responsibility that comes with it. And that's giving them the benefit of the doubt. Some recognize these things and still don't care, or worse, feel they are completely justified.

 

[Handlebar]

So what do you subscribe to? Great Society welfare programs are a system designed and enacted by whites. Redlining was (subtly ’is’) as system designed and enacted by whites. Gerrymandering is a system designed and enacted by whites. The over incarceration of non-violent drug crimes (especially marijuana) is a system designed and enacted by whites. The defunding of public schools in the South to avoid desegregation was a system designed and enacted by whites. The arresting and charging of marijuana possession rates between young black and young whites is a ’system’ largely enforced by whites. The “Southern Strategy” created systems designed and enacted by whites. The content of mainstream movies, television and video games are a ‘system’ designed and enacted by whites. Etc. etc. etc. I do believe all of this has added up. Would be nice if we worked on some of this rather than just throwing more dumb a** small time weed dealers in federal prisons.

I thought I was pretty clear. I believe that there is a combination of factors including but not limited to bad cops and cultural issues. I spoke about the Great Society programs in this and another thread they were designed to capture votes by Johnson and the results be damned, any discussion to alter those social contracts are always met with cries of racism. School choice is fought very hard by people sometimes using the race card although it would seem that minority and low-income people would benefit greatly. Is it all whites that are fighting to change these things? I agree with you wholeheartedly about the over-incarceration of non-violent drug crimes. I don't think anything you have said is incorrect. I do object to saying whites as it assigns a collective guilt on all white people. The comment earlier that white people don't want to recognize these things because that can't deal with the sense of responsibility that comes with it. Really I am responsible? This seems to me to pushing the Critical Race Theory dogma, if I understand it correctly.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

The comment earlier that white people don't want to recognize these things because that can't deal with the sense of responsibility that comes with it. Really I am responsible? This seems to me to pushing the Critical Race Theory dogma, if I understand it correctly.

I don't think many whites either do feel responsible, or want to feel responsible, and I'm not saying they should. Many of us whites are not directly responsible, but we have benefited indirectly from the policies that Vikingguy mentioned. Recognizing the discriminatory practices/policies exist, and recognizing that whites have benefited from them doesn't necessarily mean whites should feel guilty. But that is the natural reaction most have when these things are brought up - whether self-assigned or implied. For someone to accuse all whites of guilt is of course just wrong. A small number of people created these policies. The rest of us-for the most part- either knew nothing about them, or knew and didn't object. Regardless, whites have either benefited from them or at the very least, were not encumbered by them, and one of the steps to correcting the problem is acknowledging that fact. I can fully acknowledge that fact without feeling guilty. Mostly because I was just as poor as any minority on my street, and was raised in a fatherless home. Those minorities were my neighbors and the kids I played with after school. But as I explained pages ago, I had advantages they didn't have, through no fault of their own and no effort of mine. It would be untruthful to say otherwise.

 

[3855WIN]

Not if you read it in full context. Here’s the part you omitted:


This sounds to me like trying to break down the barriers single mothers may face. Not exactly evil in my opinion.

What’s so hard about saying “we feel that the best home life is most often brought about by having a caring mother and father under one roof”. ? “We realize that isn’t always possible, and want to give our full support to those in single parent households”

 

[Mike Tomano]

Better pay, more stringent conduct guidelines and requirements for being hired and remaining on the force, protection and support for officers who report bad conduct of colleagues, and lots and lots more training on conflict resolution seem like a good start to me.

Bingo!

 

[JLS]

What’s so hard about saying “we feel that the best home life is most often brought about by having a caring mother and father under one roof”. ? “We realize that isn’t always possible, and want to give our full support to those in single parent households”

Nothing. If rephrasing it sets your hair on fire maybe you could contact their PR folks and suggest it?

 

[Mike Tomano]

Black communities deserve to be safe and be afforded opportunity. Mandated sentencing and an end to early parole for violent offenders, along with school choice, are great places to start.

 

[3855WIN]

Nothing. If rephrasing it sets your hair on fire maybe you could contact their PR folks and suggest it?

Or maybe I could just realize that they are against the mom and dad family.

 

[JLS]

Or maybe I could just realize that they are against the mom and dad family.

Ooookay.

I’ve always found it far more effective to rely on my own assumptions and interpretations, rather than seeking clarification or looking for a different point of view.

 

[VikingsGuy]

What’s so hard about saying “we feel that the best home life is most often brought about by having a caring mother and father under one roof”. ? “We realize that isn’t always possible, and want to give our full support to those in single parent households”

Why do we need to tell others how to express their feelings? They use their words, you use yours. Neither sentence is anti-America. I see the underlying merits of both.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Or maybe I could just realize that they are against the mom and dad family.

But they didn't say that, you made up your own explanation for them.

 

[VikingsGuy]

School choice is fought very hard by people sometimes using the race card although it would seem that minority and low-income people would benefit greatly.

I did not cite school choice as a problem. I am not referring to school choice as that term has most recently become to be used, which I support, but rather the specific and intentional de-funding of public schools in the south paired with private schools formed for the sole and expressed purpose of creating a private segregated school system - big difference.

I do object to saying whites as it assigns a collective guilt on all white people.

First of all I say whites in counter to a common sentiment (not putting this on you personally) that black Americans have largely created their own problems. Our current mess has plenty of accountability to spread around for all the races.

Second, I think guilt should be a wholly personal concept. I do not feel guilty that 1000 years ago my Scandinavian ancestors sacked and pillaged a British town; or that 50 years before my ancestors came to America someone else's ancestor owned yet another person's ancestor in chattel slavery, or that 60 years ago some unrelated redneck sheriff set his dogs on peaceful protestors. These were bad things - things we should not repeat - but they are not my actions to feel guilty for. I do however have empathy for people dealing with the wrongs of the recent past.

Third, guilt is not the question - the question is if you see another fellow human suffering do you feel compelled to better understand their suffering from their perspective rather than your own, and do you do anything - even a little thing - to lighten their load a bit? Not because you somehow vicariously caused their hardship, but because Christ (or the deity/moral belief system of your choosing) compels such kindness.

The comment earlier that white people don't want to recognize these things because that can't deal with the sense of responsibility that comes with it. Really I am responsible? This seems to me to pushing the Critical Race Theory dogma, if I understand it correctly.

I didn't say that at all, must have been someone else. I will leave for them to respond.

 

[3855WIN]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1299507253368639488

 

[3855WIN]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1299383911412367361

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

3855Win, do you think things like this didn't happen before social media and cell phone video?

 

[VikingsGuy]

385Win - neither the bad done by others or good done by cops - both which are part of our reality - in themselves replace the rest of our reality. Time to work less on finding self re-affirming anecdotes and put a little energy towards fixing things that have been broken for many years as it relates to race relations.