Blue Lives Matter

[Losing_Sanity]

State police pull troopers out of Portland protest coverage, return them to regular assignments

Oregon State Police on Thursday pulled its approximately 100 troopers from Portland, where they assisted federal law enforcement and Portland police in responding to nightly protests.

www.oregonlive.com

The state police pulled out of the city because they recognized that the majority of the bad actors were not being prosecuted and were right back into the protest, or riot, or fight, not sure what it is anymore.

The judicial system is failing both the people and the law enforcement officers. Mayhem live.

They really didn't have much choice. Without support, they are just putting their officers in harms way. There's not too many options left.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Losing-sanity, thanks and I agree

Justbirdwatcher----did you read my post or just have a knee jerk reaction to it ? Please reread the first line of my post. I have no idea whether or not there are enough police officers available in Portland. I have no idea what conversations the police chiefs have had with the Mayor, Governor or President

Your point two. In my opinion when the local police force are unable or unwilling to protect the masses ( the number of people in Portland who do not want to hurt each other and the business's that would like to operate without being vandalized )

Your third question. Yes and No The major of Los Angeles ask for help after during the Rodney King Riots. Dr King : Some cities did and some cities did not. Integration : No and the reason the Federal Govt got involved was because the new law of the land ( which had processed through the courts and was now the law of the land ) was not being upheld by the cities and black adults and children were being hurt. The feds got involved so that black children were able to attend school in the cities in which they lived.

As to your last post to Losing Sanity : you have know a lot of the fellows here on the forum for decades ? I have not been alive for very many "decades". Several of us ask you about your knowledge of "connecting the dots" which you turned around and suggested we were "piling on" Actually we just all had the same question and was curious about what you knew that we didn't .

Slam. I agree

I think it is time for me to bow out of this thread.

Randi, I read your post. At what point is it someone else's job to determine whether they have sufficient resources? I am simply suggesting important things to consider, particularly for those who ask for less government interference on a regular basis. No harm in asking the questions. It's only viewed as "pot stirring" when the questions seem uncomfortable or inconvenient I guess. I think they are valid questions to be asked in a situation like this. Few of us have the inside knowledge to answer those questions, but we all know they should be asked and answered before federal forces come rolling in to "save the day."

If the local and state authorities are asking for help, then by all means bring it. I'm 100% for it. But if the local and state authorities have decided how to approach a problem, at what point is it no longer their business but all the sudden the business of the rest of the united states to get involved? I don't have the answer to that, but hopefully someone does or there is some legal grounds or precedent to determine that.

 

[VikingsGuy]

But if the local and state authorities have decided how to approach a problem, at what point is it no longer their business but all the sudden the business of the rest of the united states to get involved?

In 2020 the federal government has involved itself in every aspect of our lives. There are literally thousands of federal laws that "trump" (no pun intended) or add to local/state laws. There was a reason the national guard was used in the south during de-segregation - it was because there were US citizens who were systematically not being protected by local/state law enforcement due to the then local/state governments "preferences" relating to segregation. I am not a huge fan of the leviathan that is our modern federal government, but if there ever is a reason for the federal government to override a state's actions it is to defend and protect law-abiding US citizens in a state where that state is unwilling or unable to do so itself. Unfortunately, the high moral ground has been trashed by the current POTUS so it probably does more harm than good in this moment.

 

[Losing_Sanity]

In 2020 the federal government has involved itself in every aspect of our lives. There are literally thousands of federal laws that "trump" (no pun intended) or add to local/state laws. There was a reason the national guard was used in the south during de-segregation - it was because there were US citizens who were systematically not being protected by local/state law enforcement due to the then local/state governments "preferences" relating to segregation. I am not a huge fan of the leviathan that is our modern federal government, but if there ever is a reason for the federal government to override a state's actions it is to defend and protect law-abiding US citizens in a state where that state is unwilling or unable to do so itself. Unfortunately, the high moral ground has been trashed by the current POTUS so it probably does more harm than good in this moment.

Well put, I'm glad you chimed in...

You have to admit, we are running out of options on these riots.

 

[Red Fox]

At this point I feel like the BLM and the KKK are the same and I have no use for either

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

At this point I feel like the BLM and the KKK are the same and I have no use for either

But don't you think that's the point of the rioters and looters - to discredit BLM and make them look like a terrorist group? This is why I'm suspicious about who is actually doing the looting, rioting and assaulting people on the streets. There are plenty of folks who wish very much to discredit BLM and their cause. It wouldn't be that hard to get young people to create havoc wherever BLM is active, so as to confuse the situation and give people a reason to criticize them.

I'm not pro-BLM or pro rioting whatsoever. I'm just trying to take the 30K foot view here and ask, again, who has the most to gain from BLM being discredited and by creating chaos wherever they are. That's what I meant by connect the dots. I could be completely wrong, and maybe it is members of BLM doing some of the rioting, but you have to at least acknowledge that their opponents have a lot to gain whenever the BLM movement is associated with chaos on the streets.

 

[asdew1880]

If the local and state authorities are asking for help, then by all means bring it. I'm 100% for it. But if the local and state authorities have decided how to approach a problem, at what point is it no longer their business but all the sudden the business of the rest of the united states to get involved? I don't have the answer to that, but hopefully someone does or there is some legal grounds or precedent to determine that.

Federal police were in Portland because they were protecting federal property; i.e the federal courthouse that was being targeted and arsoned (word??). Didn't matter what the mayor/governor/citizens wanted. As far as interests outside of protecting federal property and what would justify a federal response, I have no idea . Another thing that is atypical of Portland is that the Mayor is also the Commissioner of Police, so no separation of powers and no oversight by city council or voters on strictly police policy.

If you are interested in primary sources of evidence, I highly recommend Police Activity YT channel. Mostly body cam footage and largely unedited with no commentary . If you are interested in living through someone else's interpretation of these primary sources,turn on the TV or read some articles.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Another thing that is atypical of Portland is that the Mayor is also the Commissioner of Police, so no separation of powers and no oversight by city council or voters on strictly police policy.

Wasn't aware of that. That's bizarre, but then so is most of Portland.

I do kinda chuckle a bit at all the attention Portland is getting right now, from people who say they have no use for the Portlands of the world. I guess it's the "told you so" instinct we all have. Folks just waiting for a chance to be critical and pile on. I feel like they created the situation and they can learn from it (or not). Can't see how it affects 99% of the rest of the U.S. to be honest. I feel like a rubbernecker gawking at a traffic accident anytime some news about Portland comes on.

 

[asdew1880]

Wasn't aware of that. That's bizarre, but then so is most of Portland.

I do kinda chuckle a bit at all the attention Portland is getting right now, from people who say they have no use for the Portlands of the world. I guess it's the "told you so" instinct we all have. Folks just waiting for a chance to be critical and pile on. I feel like they created the situation and they can learn from it (or not). Can't see how it affects 99% of the rest of the U.S. to be honest. I feel like a rubbernecker gawking at a traffic accident anytime some news about Portland comes on.

Definitely makes good meme material lol

 

[VikingsGuy]

. . . and arsoned (word??).

no

 

[Losing_Sanity]

Federal police were in Portland because they were protecting federal property; i.e the federal courthouse that was being targeted and arsoned (word??) lit on fire. Didn't matter what the mayor/governor/citizens wanted. As far as interests outside of protecting federal property and what would justify a federal response, I have no idea . Another thing that is atypical of Portland is that the Mayor is also the Commissioner of Police, so no separation of powers and no oversight by city council or voters on strictly police policy.

If you are interested in primary sources of evidence, I highly recommend Police Activity YT channel. Mostly body cam footage and largely unedited with no commentary . If you are interested in living through someone else's interpretation of these primary sources,turn on the TV or read some articles.

There @VikingsGuy, I fixed for him. I would have probably used the same word that he did!

 

[VikingsGuy]

There @VikingsGuy, I fixed for him. I would have probably used the same word that he did!

I ain't typically that uppity about thems grammar thingamajiggies, but since he added the question mark, was an easy target for a little jest

 

[LWC55]

Wasn't aware of that. That's bizarre, but then so is most of Portland.

I do kinda chuckle a bit at all the attention Portland is getting right now, from people who say they have no use for the Portlands of the world. I guess it's the "told you so" instinct we all have. Folks just waiting for a chance to be critical and pile on. I feel like they created the situation and they can learn from it (or not). Can't see how it affects 99% of the rest of the U.S. to be honest. I feel like a rubbernecker gawking at a traffic accident anytime some news about Portland comes on.

No easy answers to this one. But if I was in that 1% and unable to get out, I'd hope somebody/anybody would come and help protect my life, liberty, and all the rest.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

No easy answers to this one. But if I was in that 1% and unable to get out, I'd hope somebody/anybody would come and help protect my life, liberty, and all the rest.

Certainly. I'm sure the whole city goes on with their lives except those unfortunate residents and business owners in the affected areas. If I were an elected official there, other than seeing it as my duty to protect those people, I would be very concerned about the image of the city.

Huh, that just made me think... (here's the cynic in me coming out again...) what if someone wanted to make sure Democrat-run cities looked like a mess prior to a big election? Hmmm...

I always want to know who the agitators are, and what their motivation is. Never easy to suss out, but it would be very enlightening to know.

 

[Glockster]

I honestly don’t understand why anyone wants stop these blm violent, full of looting, and destruction of property protests. These communities Portland, parts of LA, etc. are getting exactly what they wanted. Why stand in the way of that. Parts of this country has been sowing these seeds for a long time.

 

[Red Fox]

But don't you think that's the point of the rioters and looters - to discredit BLM and make them look like a terrorist group? This is why I'm suspicious about who is actually doing the looting, rioting and assaulting people on the streets. There are plenty of folks who wish very much to discredit BLM and their cause. It wouldn't be that hard to get young people to create havoc wherever BLM is active, so as to confuse the situation and give people a reason to criticize them.

I'm not pro-BLM or pro rioting whatsoever. I'm just trying to take the 30K foot view here and ask, again, who has the most to gain from BLM being discredited and by creating chaos wherever they are. That's what I meant by connect the dots. I could be completely wrong, and maybe it is members of BLM doing some of the rioting, but you have to at least acknowledge that their opponents have a lot to gain whenever the BLM movement is associated with chaos on the streets.

I may go along with your idea if they didn't come out and say this "I don’t care if someone decides to loot a Gucci or a Macy’s or a Nike store, because that makes sure that person eats," said BLM organizer Ariel Atkins. "That makes sure that person has clothes. Anything they wanted to take, they can take it because these businesses have insurance."

If it was other groups doing it just to make them look bad they would not support it

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

I may go along with your idea if they didn't come out and say this "I don’t care if someone decides to loot a Gucci or a Macy’s or a Nike store, because that makes sure that person eats," said BLM organizer Ariel Atkins. "That makes sure that person has clothes. Anything they wanted to take, they can take it because these businesses have insurance."

If it was other groups doing it just to make them look bad they would not support it

Yea, I think some of those organizers have underestimated how attached to material things most Americans are and how outraged most Americans will get at the sight of someone stealing a $200 tv. Much more outraged, for instance, than learning about a CEO who stole 100M. People are weird like that.

 

[Sherpa1]

For all you BLM sympathizers, Not one left media outlet will admit that most of these so called innocent, unarmed black folk that were killed by the police, were either engaged in criminal conduct or had been involved in a crime. With the exception on Ms Taylor, almost all had criminal records. Mr Floyd was by no means an outstanding citizen as the BLM tries to make him out to be. Dont forget Ms Taylors boyfriend shot at the Police first! Law enforcement does not say " there is a black person ,Lets shoot him/her". I will agree that some should have not ended with a shooting or a death. Here is a thought, Don't want Police contact, don't commit a crime. Simple as that.

 

[Red Fox]

Yea, I think some of those organizers have underestimated how attached to material things most Americans are and how outraged most Americans will get at the sight of someone stealing a $200 tv. Much more outraged, for instance, than learning about a CEO who stole 100M. People are weird like that.

I just can not follow your thought process. First you say it is not BLM rioting and looting, I post a quote form one of their leaders. Now you say well because a CEO may have ripped off the company then why shouldn't anyone be able too.

Nike using slave labor in China to make there goods so using your logic, everyone should be able too.

The answer to both should be NO

 

[VikingsGuy]

Certainly. I'm sure the whole city goes on with their lives except those unfortunate residents and business owners in the affected areas. If I were an elected official there, other than seeing it as my duty to protect those people, I would be very concerned about the image of the city.

Huh, that just made me think... (here's the cynic in me coming out again...) what if someone wanted to make sure Democrat-run cities looked like a mess prior to a big election? Hmmm...

I always want to know who the agitators are, and what their motivation is. Never easy to suss out, but it would be very enlightening to know.

They have been a mess for many years without any such "help". Would this be the same reason for the last 40 years of Detroit? But maybe you're right and it's just one more tentacle of Queen Elizabeth's One World Govt.