Bill barring permits in MO Breaks and other districts pops up

[lpshunter29]

I spent every odd numbered year in the capitol working for resident hunters since 2009. It's not a secret. It's been in plain sight all along, but it is wasnt until Gianforte got elected that these bills had a path to getting signed.

So you really think a bunch of little outfitters are paying government officials to destroy their businesses? That seems kind of insane.

 

[TheJason]

So you really think a bunch of little outfitters are paying government officials to destroy their businesses? That seems kind of insane.

You're not paying attention. They aren't destroying their business. They are destroying hunting for the schmuck who relies on public land DIY stuff. This is all about furthering private land hunting.

 

[Ben Lamb]

So you really think a bunch of little outfitters are paying government officials to destroy their businesses? That seems kind of insane.

No, they're using their leverage to get subsidies and welfare for their businesses while also advancing legislation that would open up archery & rifle elk hunting for bulls in the breaks & other LE permit areas over objective in order to get more clients.

When the original bundled LE permits for the breaks went in, there were districts that had over 9-0% use by outfitters & landowners. That's effectively a privatized resource. They hated the bundles, and in fact, the largest anti-resident hunter, anti-access organization in MT was born out of it - UPOM. These are the people that own the GOP in MT. The head of UPOM, Chuck Denowh, is a political fundraiser & often times funnels tons of cash into pet projects as well as directly depositing maximum amounts into candidate coffers, while running dark money independent expenditures & PACs.

UPOM & MOGA are tightly wound up together, and they bring along the MT Farm Bureau & Stockgrowers association.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

So you really think a bunch of little outfitters are paying government officials to destroy their businesses? That seems kind of insane.

In summation this year.

Add crossbows, so you can get clients who aren't competent with a bow out during archery season, plug and play hunting during sept.

Muzzy, extend the season an extra 9 days, that's 9 days of paying clients

Fix a portion of of the NR tags for guide only, secures tags for your guided clients ever year

Remove limited hunting in premium units, elk will be constantly chased onto private + you can then take your clients on hunts every year and don't have to worry about them drawing.

The goal here is to make sure Joe from Texas can pay you 25k every year to shoot an elk.

 

[lpshunter29]

For this outfitter conspiracy to work you really have to think every outfitter in Montana doesn't have the foresight to understand the long term consequences of this action. Consider Alaska, a dall sheep hunt there costs somewhere in the realm of 25k. Thats a once in a lifetime pipe dream for most people. You really think others think it's going to benefit their business to make once in a lifetime hunts the only option? That's insane!

 

[Deleted member 28227]

UPOM... leading the fight against Montana Stream access, against corner crossing, and Bison as a game animal.

 

[TheJason]

For this outfitter conspiracy to work you really have to think every outfitter in Montana doesn't have the foresight to understand the long term consequences of this action. Consider Alaska, a dall sheep hunt there costs somewhere in the realm of 25k. Thats a once in a lifetime pipe dream for most people. You really think others think it's going to benefit their business to make once in a lifetime hunts the only option? That's insane!

Your disbelief is very naïve.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

For this outfitter conspiracy to work you really have to think every outfitter in Montana doesn't have the foresight to understand the long term consequences of this action. Consider Alaska, a dall sheep hunt there costs somewhere in the realm of 25k. Thats a once in a lifetime pipe dream for most people. You really think others think it's going to benefit their business to make once in a lifetime hunts the only option? That's insane!

Yes Alaska is literally the goal.

OIL you're funny.

Best trophy Room I have ever seen

One of my wife's clients has the best trophy room I have ever seen. He has been Sportsman of the year and holds many World Slams, etc. This year he will be donating all of his animals to the Natural History Museum in Houston (I think thats the place they are going). I will get the opportunity to...

www.hunttalk.com

 

[Ben Lamb]

For this outfitter conspiracy to work you really have to think every outfitter in Montana doesn't have the foresight to understand the long term consequences of this action. Consider Alaska, a dall sheep hunt there costs somewhere in the realm of 25k. Thats a once in a lifetime pipe dream for most people. You really think others think it's going to benefit their business to make once in a lifetime hunts the only option? That's insane!

I wouldn't say that long term vision is a halmark of either the MT GOP or MOGA. It's a pretty focused self-interest vision for short term gain.

 

[Carnage2011]

@Big Shooter i see you logged in to check on things today...no input?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

@ipshunter29
Go listen to the Meateater episode with crooked sky outfitters in WY they specifically say their biggest gripe is that their big money clients can't get the tag every year.

Ep. 194: Summon the Squall

Steven Rinella talks with Adam Weatherby, Landon Peterson, Stewart Peterson, Seth Morris, and Janis Putelis. Topics discussed: A shot so bad it didn’t even spook the buck; Wyoming’s Region G; magic mountains and crooked skies; animosity toward your mentor; horses vs. mules as...

www.themeateater.com

The problem for outfitters is that OIL hunters are a great rate of return, because you have to spend time and effort marketing your hunt, they would much rather have a core group of 20 people that come back every single year.

Compared to other expensive vacations, guided elk hunting or even sheep hunting isn't all that expensive.

A dall sheep hunt is about what a wealthy family of 4 spends on a week ski vacation to Aspen.

 

[lpshunter29]

Your disbelief is very naïve.

Perhaps my disbelief in your paranoid conspiracy is naïve but isn't there also a chance that not everyone in a particular business is an idiot?

 

[EYJONAS!]

Yes Alaska is literally the goal.

OIL you're funny.

View attachment 173744

Best trophy Room I have ever seen

One of my wife's clients has the best trophy room I have ever seen. He has been Sportsman of the year and holds many World Slams, etc. This year he will be donating all of his animals to the Natural History Museum in Houston (I think thats the place they are going). I will get the opportunity to...

www.hunttalk.com

I always wondered how much money in rams was in that room....

 

[MTLabrador]

Perhaps my disbelief in your paranoid conspiracy is naïve but isn't there also a chance that not everyone in a particular business is an idiot?

You don’t know much about MOGA and UPOM, do you?

 

[lpshunter29]

@ipshunter29
Go listen to the Meateater episode with crooked sky outfitters in WY they specifically say their biggest gripe is that their big money clients can't get the tag every year.

The problem for outfitters is that OIL hunters are a great rate of return, because you have to spend time and effort marketing your hunt, they would much rather have a core group of 20 people that come back every single year.

Compared to other expensive vacations, guided elk hunting or even sheep hunting isn't all that expensive.

A dall sheep hunt is about what a wealthy family of 4 spends on a week ski vacation to Aspen.

How the hell much money are you making that thirty thousand dollars isn't expensive? It's literally the average US salary!

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Even your average, less engaged MT hunter will vocally oppose this right? Of the great moga policy cluster of 2021, this bill feels like the most tangible bad idea to the kind hunters I grew up with.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

How the hell much money are you making that thirty thousand dollars isn't expensive? It's literally the average US salary!

It doesn't matter what the average is, it matters that $30K isn't that much to the same small group of people who will do it over and over again.

 

[Carnage2011]

Perhaps my disbelief in your paranoid conspiracy is naïve but isn't there also a chance that not everyone in a particular business is an idiot?

Depends. Are you referring to the current MT legislature or MOGA? Both of those are currently putting on a clinic for how to be idiots.

 

[BuzzH]

How the hell much money are you making that thirty thousand dollars isn't expensive? It's literally the average US salary!

You need to get out more...the amount of money thrown around by hunters isn't surprising.

Go look at any on-line auction for top tags, governors tags, commission tags, etc.

 

[Sioux33]

I just called Josh Kassmaier, the sponsor of this bill, and talked to him for a good 10 minutes about it. To put it mildly, he's not informed on any of the sportsman's issues against this bill and says he wants to pass it, but is open for input.

Things we discussed is that this will kill some of the most sought after districts in the state, it's going to exacerbate the problem by pressuring animals onto private, focus should be on increasing access/Block Mgmt and working with landowners, it's not a one size fits all solution with over-objective units, limiting pressure on public and improving habitat on public in problem areas needs to be addressed. After hearing this, he said he's going to consult with some biologists, but we'll see...

I'm about to lose it with this legislature. Clearly, as we've learned with SB 143, an email ain't gonna do jack shit. Please take 5-10 minutes out of your day and give him a jingle - 406-781-5386.