Bankruptcies of Canadian Guides and Outfitters?

[devon deer]

I feel bad for them but really, they are in a long list of other businesses that are hurting just as bad. I have a couple close friends that had to close the doors and file BK

I agree mate, we are all suffering and having to cut our cloth.
Fly Fishing guiding last year was a financial disaster for me, this year I have zero bookings!
I charge $220 for a days guiding, I should put it up but every body is struggling so I can't.
I don't do much guided hunting but that was equally as bad.
I have never taken a deposit, I take people on their word and if the worst happens then I don't have to refund a deposit I have probably already spent!
Lets hope things improve for everyone this year.
Cheers
Richard

 

[F250]

I had two walleye fishing trips booked last summer with a Quebec camp owner that I have been going to for about 15 years. He rolled my deposits over to this coming summer. I don't think he can survive another year with a CLOSED sign on his business. I am hoping that by late spring, those who have had the vaccine can gain entry to Canada.

 

[Salmonchaser]

Yes, margins are small. From a return on investment standpoint its pretty easy to put your money to work else where. Even with the economic boom prior to Covid most guides and outfitters have other jobs.

 

[BigHornRam]

The big kicker for them or any business right now is how much they are leveraged. Top stone sheep areas sell for large amounts of money. I talked to a young outfitter a couple years ago at the sheep show who's older brother was a 17 year old apprentice guide when I was up there. He said he has worked extra hard at paying down his debt, and hoped to have his business paid for in couple years. Then he could sleep better. He seemed to have his stuff together, but I'm sure this past year has put him and his family to the test.

 

[SaskHunter]

I agree mate, we are all suffering and having to cut our cloth.
Fly Fishing guiding last year was a financial disaster for me, this year I have zero bookings!
I charge $220 for a days guiding, I should put it up but every body is struggling so I can't.
I don't do much guided hunting but that was equally as bad.
I have never taken a deposit, I take people on their word and if the worst happens then I don't have to refund a deposit I have probably already spent!
Lets hope things improve for everyone this year.
Cheers
Richard

That's too bad. My FIL is a fishing guide and he made a killing last summer but he guides on a good lake close to high population. He has a good circle of clients and he managed to snag quite a few new clients due to COVID. I can imagine remote fishing guides having issues as most people weren't willing to travel.

 

[SaskHunter]

I think the new variants of the virus have politicians and people spooked. Hopefully as vaccination rates rise the restrictions will start to ease. Living in Vegas, I know how devastating the loss of business due to travel restrictions can be.

Our gov't was A-OK with travel until the majority of Canadians started raging about all the non-essential international travel. I believe they will trigger an election soon and this is a step in the right direction for them. "See, we finally did something"

 

[bonedogg]

The one Canadian outfitter I know personally was able to postpone his tags for 2020, into 2021. hoping for a correction to this BS and double up on tags.

 

[TheGrayRider]

Interestingly, personal bankruptcy filings were down roughly 26% in central Indiana last year . The government stimulus money is probably keeping debtors temporarily afloat. I don’t know if business bankruptcy filings are down also.

Logically, in a down economy, debt increases wholesale and then becomes unmanageable and bankruptcy filings increase. I don’t understand it???

 

[OntarioHunter]

Our gov't was A-OK with travel until the majority of Canadians started raging about all the non-essential international travel. I believe they will trigger an election soon and this is a step in the right direction for them. "See, we finally did something"

I hunted in Montana this past fall and was shocked at what I saw. It is no small wonder the feds here closed the border (last year ... the big new travel restrictions you mentioned above only really affect Canadians returning from US and other countries - US travelers have been barred from entry for some time). During one week three people died in the tiny county where I was hunting and, though the governor mandated it, still almost no one was masked up. Forget about social distancing. I paid for my gas at the pumps and if there had been any place with drive through groceries I would have been happy to pay 300% markup! I just made sure I got my grub first thing in the morning after store opened or right at closing time when few customers were there. Even the staff handling the produce and/or my items at checkout were not masked. Unbelievable. Should we let people like that just wander across the border into Canadian communities and cause our hospitals to overload? Sure, we need their money ... but not badly enough to kill people for it.

 

[sneakypete]

That is roughly half the mean income of an Idaho family. We'll leave the light on for you.

I know that Sir! I can’t afford that hunt. WSF auctioned off Montana sheep tag for 440,000 I believe!

 

[Panda Bear]

I hunted in Montana this past fall and was shocked at what I saw. It is no small wonder the feds here closed the border (last year ... the big new travel restrictions you mentioned above only really affect Canadians returning from US and other countries - US travelers have been barred from entry for some time). During one week three people died in the tiny county where I was hunting and, though the governor mandated it, still almost no one was masked up. Forget about social distancing. I paid for my gas at the pumps and if there had been anyplace with drive through groceries I would have been happy to pay 300% markup! I just made sure I got my grub first thing in the morning after store opened or right at closing time when few customers were there. Even the staff handling the produce and/or my items at checkout were not masked. Unbelievable. Should we let people like that just wander across the border into Canadian communities and cause our hospitals to overload? Sure, we need their money ... but not badly enough to kill people for it.

We are wandering away from the op's topic, but in all fairness to our brothers and sisters to the South. You do remember the huge rally in Montreal where thousands were walking beside each other, without masks, protesting wearing masks. Just recently two B.C. residents sneaked into The Yukon and got two doses of Modera illegally and were returning back to B.C. when they were arrested. They may quarantine now for 6 months, plus a fine.

 

[RaiderRich]

We are wandering away from the op's topic, but in all fairness to our brothers and sisters to the South. You do remember the huge rally in Montreal where thousands were walking beside each other, without masks, protesting wearing masks. Just recently two B.C. residents sneaked into The Yukon and got two doses of Modera illegally and were returning back to B.C. when they were arrested. They may quarantine now for 6 months, plus a fine.

Also Montana is not NY or CA or even NV. Here in Vegas if I were to walk into a store without a mask, asked to leave at least, arrested at most. Restaurants not following protocols are shutdown and fined.

Wandering from the OPs original topic? That never happens on Internet boards come on!

 

[BigHornRam]

Interestingly, personal bankruptcy filings were down roughly 26% in central Indiana last year . The government stimulus money is probably keeping debtors temporarily afloat. I don’t know if business bankruptcy filings are down also.

Logically, in a down economy, debt increases wholesale and then becomes unmanageable and bankruptcy filings increase. I don’t understand it???

This guy is a very savvy economist. Might give you some insight. As for Canada, I don't know what they have done to date to help their businesses survive during the pandemic.

Montana seeing a recession like no other, UM economist says

In spite of significant job losses during the pandemic, Montanans' personal income may have improved in 2020, largely because of a major cash infusion from the federal government, an economist

billingsgazette.com

 

[Gellar]

I hunted in Montana this past fall and was shocked at what I saw. It is no small wonder the feds here closed the border (last year ... the big new travel restrictions you mentioned above only really affect Canadians returning from US and other countries - US travelers have been barred from entry for some time). During one week three people died in the tiny county where I was hunting and, though the governor mandated it, still almost no one was masked up. Forget about social distancing. I paid for my gas at the pumps and if there had been any place with drive through groceries I would have been happy to pay 300% markup! I just made sure I got my grub first thing in the morning after store opened or right at closing time when few customers were there. Even the staff handling the produce and/or my items at checkout were not masked. Unbelievable. Should we let people like that just wander across the border into Canadian communities and cause our hospitals to overload? Sure, we need their money ... but not badly enough to kill people for it.

I know that you were not breaking the law and you are not the one that makes decisions...but I think it is BS that Canadians could visit the US but US residents could not visit Canada. I also know that this rule has recently been changed.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I know that you were not breaking the law and you are not the one that makes decisions...but I think it is BS that Canadians could visit the US but US residents could not visit Canada. I also know that this rule has recently been changed.

No arguement here. I am essentially a dual citizen so legally entitled to cross both ways. However, coming back I was required to quarantine at home, and yes the authorities did check in. Could you afford to miss work for two more weeks after coming home? I have also just learned the newest restrictions for returning Canadians ONLY applies to those entering through airports. Canadians driving across will not be tested at the border and impounded in designated motels awaiting test results (+ paying $2K to cover expenses). I think that is BS. Should be same no matter what mode of transportation. Fortunately there are few Canadians willing to fly south into the land of massive COVID and chaotic inconsistent response. You are correct in that Trump allowed any Canadians into the country via plane... but NOT in vehicles. Makes no sense at all which is not surprising. Canadian news network asked for an explanation from Trump administration but got no response (what answer could they give?). Biden put a stop to that. Vehicle or plane entry requires two week quarantine upon arrival. But who enforces it? Enter the Twilight Zone! Trudeau decided to take that difficult responsibility away from local authorities (much to their relief I'm sure). I suppose it is more doable for fed administration of this policy at the three designated airport entry points. I guess he could simply make just a handful of vehicle entry points and do the same testing and impoundment. Apparently it is being discussed as I write this. Possibly a significant inconvenience for the few returning Canadian American snowbirds who foolishly drove their motorhomes south during a pandemic. Well, cry me a river!

These onerous new restrictions are meant to curb the spread of foreign variants into Canada. Or at least slow them until vaccines can catch up. Makes sense. The variants are already in two places in Canada (from irresponsible travelers) but govt is trying to make sure more isn't imported while trying to put a lid on what's here.

 

[RaiderRich]

The good news in regards to the variants, is everything I have read states the developed vaccines are good for those too. Seems like yesterday when I worked in Buffalo and would cross the border just to go to lunch. I hope those days aren't gone for good. It would be a shame.

 

[tackdriver]

Just found this today.....For travellers arriving to Canada by land, as of February 15, 2021, all travellers, with some exceptions, will be required to provide proof of a negative COVID-19 molecular test result taken in the United States within 72 hours of pre-arrival, or a positive test taken 14 to 90 days prior to arrival. In addition, as of February 22, 2021, travellers entering Canada at the land border will be required to take a COVID-19 molecular test on arrival as well as toward the end of their 14-day quarantine.

 

[RaiderRich]

Just found this today.....For travellers arriving to Canada by land, as of February 15, 2021, all travellers, with some exceptions, will be required to provide proof of a negative COVID-19 molecular test result taken in the United States within 72 hours of pre-arrival, or a positive test taken 14 to 90 days prior to arrival. In addition, as of February 22, 2021, travellers entering Canada at the land border will be required to take a COVID-19 molecular test on arrival as well as toward the end of their 14-day quarantine.

Any exemptions for those providing proof of receiving both doses of vaccine? Just curious.

 

[AlaskaHunter]

Coastal towns in British Columbia and southeast Alaska have been hit hard as the huge cruise ship industry
will not be allowed back until at least February 2022.
The economic impact of that decision is substantial...for example, the Vancouver cruise industry had $3.17 million in direct economic activity for each cruise ship, and a projected $2.2 billion of total economic impact.

 

[LostinOregon1]

Outfitters in Alberta have a different system than the states. The own the allocations which allow them to buy the tags. The allocations are expensive to buy, but once you buy them, you have them. Then they need to pay a renewal fee/I think it is called something else every year to use the allocations. They can't lease land so they really have no overhead in that they don't have big payments to make. Most of the Alberta outfitters run a lodge/bedrooms on their own property so really their expenses are kept in check. I don't think you will see a lot of them going out of business, maybe some will sell their allocations to someone else and get out. The outfitters that have a ton of allocations maybe the ones in trouble since they all have to be renewed.

Rich