B&C says no no no

[Hilljackoutlaw]

I use cell cams, but I like this putting the foot down by B&C. Good on them.

Boone and Crockett Says the Use of Smart Riflescopes, GPS-Enabled Tech, and Trail Cams That Transmit Images In Real Time Isn't Fair Chase

After a year of crafting its new position statement, the Boone and Crockett Club has announced that certain technology isn't fair chase.

www.outdoorlife.com

 

[Trial153]

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

I read it as you can still use cellular, it would just need to be delayed.

I know people like them to avoid scenting an area to check a camera. Not sure if they have the feature, but pushing all images Sunday night would be fair chase in my eyes. That's the same as a normal camera, just doesn't different method of delivery

 

[Treeshark]

Trail cams, cell or not, are akin to drones= not fair chase, IMO.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Trail cams, cell or not, are akin to drones= not fair chase, IMO.

Trail cams (cell and SD) can certainly help hunters be successful but drones are a completely different thing IMO.

 

[SaskHunter]

I mean B&C can chose whichever criteria(s) they want for their record books and I don't disagree with these new ones. At the end of the day, some of their rules are already being broken such as the "drying" period.

Guys can still use whatever gear they want and brag about their B&C trophy while posing with it in their living room clad in camo and facepaint, they just won't get an actual certificate.

 

[drexal]

I'm not a trophy chaser so what B&C does has little effect on me, but I do agree that some of these push an ethics boundry and all of them contribute to a less fair chase hunt.

 

[OntarioHunter]

It's about time. I'm very impressed that Utah has led the charge against technocrap BS. Generally I'm not inclined to sing much praise for "the beehive state" due to their support for the Sagebrush Rebellion but I'm on board with them on this issue. I would prefer to see ALL trail cams banned during hunting season. That shit has always been way over the ethics line in my book. Electronic spying. No less disgusting than using drones.

I hunt fenced farms in South Africa because that's all there is. My lodge and PH do NOT use trail cams. One property had a ton of surveillance cameras but only because he had rinos. The surveillance was for poachers. That property owner did not give images to my PH and as far as I know video surveillance was not used to locate my buffalo bull. The other property had cameras at a couple of waterholes so the owner could keep track of baboons. They are hard on his sheep, especially during lambing. He did share some waterhole trail cam photos of leopards but they are not legal to hunt. After I shot my kudu he showed me an image of it recorded months earlier at a gate. He was surprised to see it had returned to his property (kudu are free roaming).

Edit: I do recall the lodge had trail cams at baited jackal traps to observe what was tripping them. Several species are in trouble now due to jackal trapping/poisoning so live traps are pretty much the rule now. The bait piles for bush pig and hyena were monitored with cameras but that's not spot and stalk so not for me anyway.

I find it interesting that baiting is still regarded as fair chase but putting up trail cams isn't.

 

[BigHornRam]

It's about time. I'm very impressed that Utah has led the charge against technocrap BS. Generally I'm not inclined to sing much praise for "the beehive state" due to their support for the Sagebrush Rebellion but I'm on board with them on this issue. I would prefer to see ALL trail cams banned during hunting season. That shit has always been way over the ethics line in my book. Electronic spying. No less disgusting than using drones.

I hunt fenced farms in South Africa because that's all there is. My lodge and PH do NOT use trail cams. One property had a ton of surveillance cameras but only because he had rinos. The surveillance was for poachers. That property owner did not give images to my PH and as far as I know video surveillance was not used to locate my buffalo bull. The other property had cameras at a couple of waterholes so the owner could keep track of baboons. They are hard on his sheep, especially during lambing. He did share some waterhole trail cam photos of leopards but they are not legal to hunt. After I shot my kudu he showed me an image of it recorded months earlier at a gate. He was surprised to see it had returned to his property (kudu are free roaming).

Edit: I do recall the lodge had trail cams at baited jackal traps to observe what was tripping them. Several species are in trouble now due to jackal trapping/poisoning so live traps are pretty much the rule now. The bait piles for bush pig and hyena were monitored with cameras but that's not spot and stalk so not for me anyway.

I find it interesting that baiting is still regarded as fair chase but putting up trail cams isn't.

After reading this word salad, you have moved up to my #1 TT suspect OH.

 

[406LIFE]

I'm not a trophy chaser so what B&C does has little effect on me, but I do agree that some of these push an ethics boundry and all of them contribute to a less fair chase hunt.

Their records are small part of who they are and what they do. We've benefited from their work for 130 years in the world of conservation and continue to do so. When the idea of Fair Chase was introduced it was wildly unpopular (and predated their records by decades) but today it is Gospel. I share this only so you (and others) might know there is so much more to B&C.

 

[Bob-WY]

They are walking some might slim lines. So an app tied to adjust your scope based on range is not good, but a dial in turret is good as long as you adjust it yourself?

GPS enabled tech? Hmmm, like OnX? You can glass a bull, 2 miles away, mark it and go right to it?

There are some might fine lines.

 

[MTGomer]

I think real time cell cams should not be legal to be used for hunting purposes, but I’d argue that killing a cell cam’d mule deer with a bow is still harder than rifle hunting.

 

[Deleted member 40728]

Good on B&C for their decision but I don’t think it will have any effect at all.
P&Y ruled that anything harvested with a crossbow is not eligible for their books and I doubt anyone has been laying down their crossguns due to that.
Most likely the cell-cam market will be unphased as well.

 

[COEngineer]

Good article. I like that they point out that trail cam issues are different between Eastern and Western hunting (they talk about Western hunting often focusing on limited water/food sources). The other big difference, that they don't discuss, is that Western hunting is most often public land hunting, so the discussion has to be different. I don't like walking into USFS or BLM land and finding cameras taking pictures of me and 'my' spot. And often those cameras are left there for months or longer which crosses over into the whole claiming spots problem (my camera/stand/tent is here so this is my spot mentality).

 

[Schaaf]

In this day and age, it’s nice to see some spine every once in a while.

Good for them.

 

[drexal]

Their records are small part of who they are and what they do. We've benefited from their work for 130 years in the world of conservation and continue to do so. When the idea of Fair Chase was introduced it was wildly unpopular (and predated their records by decades) but today it is Gospel. I share this only so you (and others) might know there is so much more to B&C.

In an attempt to be brief, I was less than precise. I specifically meant in relation to the article. I applaud what B&C has done historically and I take no issue with them. I even agree with the ethics and fair chase argument that they are making here. However, as the article starts off, any trophy taken in relation to those issues addressed would prevent it from being eligible for its Big Game Records. That's what I was ineffectively responding to. My hunting trophies consist of food from the kill, the memories of the chase, the time spent afield with friends and family, even the trials and tribulations of the journey.

With that said, I also take no issue with trophy chasers. As a taxidermist, I made a short career out of preserving those trophies.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Going to have to be an honor system thing unless B&C plans on commissioning the cell cam companies' picture transmittal history for the hunter of every book animal entered.

• Trail cameras can be a helpful tool in game management and selective hunting. The use of any technology that delivers real-time location data (including photos) to target or guide a hunter to any animal in a manner that elicits an immediate (real-time) response by the hunter is not permitted. “Real time” is the key concept. Seeing a photo and harvesting an animal a few hours later, or even the same day, uses this technology to assure a kill. It also takes advantage of the animal, which cannot detect impending danger from a camera. Waiting several days, or even until the following season, to pursue an animal captured on camera is different, and would not be deemed an unethical use of a trail camera.

Say Bobby got a picture of brutus go bed in the NW thicket on Thursday, heads up to the land for the weekend (which he would have done anyway) and shoots Brutus entering the thicket on Saturday night - how do they rule that one? Is a pic from 48 hours ago considered "real time"? Bobby might have buggered up Brutus if he pulled SD cards Friday night but he might not have and got the same info. I've had a bunch of cell cams out in MN for the past couple years. Haven't come across a situation where real time data has changed how I hunt but I'm sure that day will come. [edit: I need to refresh on regs, I think it's actually illegal to use live intelligence from cell cams to "take" deer in MN already]

Another Interesting one:

• Using drones to take pictures or video, or transmitting this information live whether scouting or during a hunt takes unfair advantage over a game animal and other hunters.

I recently got a drone because they are cheap. I intend to fly over my/my family's properties in the off season to get a better picture from above and help me plan projects. Sounds like that could be considered scouting and disqualify any book entries (which has at best a 0.01% chance of happening).

I generally agree with where B&C's head is at with these issues but see it being hard for them to draw the line on specific circumstances.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I think real time cell cams should not be legal to be used for hunting purposes, but I’d argue that killing a cell cam’d mule deer with a bow is still harder than rifle hunting.

And what's Pope & Young's position on those? I'm not a bow hunter so asking for myself.

 

[MTGomer]

And what's Pope & Young's position on those? I'm not a bow hunter so asking for myself.

Good question. I’m not sure. If I had to guess they probably wouldn’t let an animal taken with assistance from one. I know that’s their stance on radios. I’ll look it up.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Going to have to be an honor system thing unless B&C plans on commissioning the cell cam companies' picture transmittal history for the hunter of every book animal entered.


Say Bobby got a picture of brutus go bed in the NW thicket on Thursday, heads up to the land for the weekend (which he would have done anyway) and shoots Brutus entering the thicket on Saturday night - how do they rule that one? Is a pic from 48 hours ago considered "real time"? Bobby might have buggered up Brutus if he pulled SD cards Friday night but he might not have and got the same info. I've had a bunch of cell cams out in MN for the past couple years. Haven't come across a situation where real time data has changed how I hunt but I'm sure that day will come.

Another Interesting one:


I recently got a drone because they are cheap. I intend to fly over my/my family's properties in the off season to get a better picture from above and help me plan projects. Sounds like that could be considered scouting and disqualify any book entries (which has at best a 0.01% chance of happening).

I generally agree with where B&C's head is at with these issues but see it being hard for them to draw the line on specific circumstances.

I think this will impact outfitters significantly. They don't want clients photographing their trail cams. Never trust a client or disgruntled guide with secrets. Then B&C would scrutinize every entry with the outfitter's name on it. I wish the jurisdictions would just step up to the plate and kick these contraptions out of the field during hunting season. Used to be that way here. Also baiting deer and moose had to stop before hunting season. Now the MNR has thrown the door open for everything except jacklighting. Won't be long before they back off on that too (natives can already do it). Ontario is definitely headed in the wrong direction. It's why I stopped hunting big game here twenty years ago.

B&C has at least taken a chunk out of the social media aspect. Guys who want to cultivate big bucks and run the trail cam photos on the net throughout the year won't be entering those deer in the book come fall. Someone will squeal on them. We know media bragging is a big deal for these "bone hunters," especially a couple of outdoors TV types. Anyway, if B&C says it's not fair, that's a step in the right direction. Maybe it will get some more jurisdictions thinking about these technology issues rather than just looking the other way.