AZSFW HB2072...letter from Weiers...
- Thread starter BuzzH
- Start date
azhunter42
New member
Its going to take hunters like us to spread the word on how bad SWF is to any state.A bunck of crooks who do not represent us at all,no matter how many times they lie to us. Im sure SFW wants this debacle to just go away.But all we have to do is not forget and support other states that have to deal with SFW.
You are judged by the company you keep.
You are judged by the company you keep.
azhunter42
New member
copied from another site dicussion ;;
Also, anyone that thinks the AZ SFW offspring is not marching to Don's tunes is not paying attention. UT SFW provides the seed money and the playbook for how to finance your non-profit using proceeds from auction/lottery of the public's primo big game tags.
The SFW playbook is simple enough. Define the enemy as overwhelming and explain the old way of having Joe SixPack finance battles with the enemy and restore/expand the herds does not work. Often, the F&G is unable (or is illegal) to take on the political fight. Budgets for animals gets put near the back of the line after prisons, schools, etc.
This new approach takes big money. No one is handing out big money on the street corner. Big Game tags, however, are a license to print money with a little creative hocus pocus. Primo tags are worth more to Richie Rich than the face value the state collects when awards the same tag through a lottery.
Set up local chapters but do not give them democracy. They serve at your pleasure and they do not vote on policy nor the leadership at HQ.
Do not ask for just any tags when is time. Get the tags from the non-resident allotment (you know, those suckers can not vote a politician out of office) so the politician is creating surplus money without passing a tax or cutting anyone else's departmental budget. Residents tend to smile when the non-resident hunter gets the shapt. Is silly since we are all non-residents in every state but one.
Of course, Joe SixPack will now have fewer tags in the lottery but just leaving a couple of sheep tags in the lottery is enough to keep Joe applying.
Set up the expo. Award subcontracts to allies and those you want to shut up that are questioning the actions. Folks are quick to figure out which side of the bread slice is buttered.
Outfitters love the idea Richie Rich got a tag that last year went to Joe SixPack. Richie hires an outfitter. Outfitter likes this. Donations are made to the organization.
You have big money now the expo is underway. Maybe get a couple of big donors to chip in to your "seed money" to really get the ball rolling.
What if the herds do not grow. Say the deer herds in Utah. No problem. You mumble a bit and keep your tags. What if the herd grow. Say the elk in Utah. Well, then, time to fire up the PR machine!
Start spreading favors at the state capitol building. Grow your influence over how budgets are set for F&G. This growing influence shuts up the leadership bureacrats at F&G. Get your slate of commissioners on the Wildlife Board.
You can now push through legislation that you write and hand off to your pet senator. The wildlife board will not raise a stink. The F&G will not publicly raise a stink. Easy breezy.
Next, create tons of transferable landowner tags. The outfitters will grease the skids for that tactic. Got to have even more tags for Richie Rich so he can hire outfitters at top dollar.
The above playbook is brilliant. Most of us could be handed the playbook and screw it up 99 out of 100 attempts, though.
The concept of a new breed of organization that can get into messy political fights on behalf of Joe SixPack and state F&G is worthwhile, in my opinion.
The execution of the playbook has become very, very messy. Trust has been broken. Promises were quickly made during the power-building phase but slowly delivered upon. Who can forget the delay in financial reporting and Expo tag odds?
Most of us agree SFW has shot itself and its offspring in the foot.
Also, anyone that thinks the AZ SFW offspring is not marching to Don's tunes is not paying attention. UT SFW provides the seed money and the playbook for how to finance your non-profit using proceeds from auction/lottery of the public's primo big game tags.
The SFW playbook is simple enough. Define the enemy as overwhelming and explain the old way of having Joe SixPack finance battles with the enemy and restore/expand the herds does not work. Often, the F&G is unable (or is illegal) to take on the political fight. Budgets for animals gets put near the back of the line after prisons, schools, etc.
This new approach takes big money. No one is handing out big money on the street corner. Big Game tags, however, are a license to print money with a little creative hocus pocus. Primo tags are worth more to Richie Rich than the face value the state collects when awards the same tag through a lottery.
Set up local chapters but do not give them democracy. They serve at your pleasure and they do not vote on policy nor the leadership at HQ.
Do not ask for just any tags when is time. Get the tags from the non-resident allotment (you know, those suckers can not vote a politician out of office) so the politician is creating surplus money without passing a tax or cutting anyone else's departmental budget. Residents tend to smile when the non-resident hunter gets the shapt. Is silly since we are all non-residents in every state but one.
Of course, Joe SixPack will now have fewer tags in the lottery but just leaving a couple of sheep tags in the lottery is enough to keep Joe applying.
Set up the expo. Award subcontracts to allies and those you want to shut up that are questioning the actions. Folks are quick to figure out which side of the bread slice is buttered.
Outfitters love the idea Richie Rich got a tag that last year went to Joe SixPack. Richie hires an outfitter. Outfitter likes this. Donations are made to the organization.
You have big money now the expo is underway. Maybe get a couple of big donors to chip in to your "seed money" to really get the ball rolling.
What if the herds do not grow. Say the deer herds in Utah. No problem. You mumble a bit and keep your tags. What if the herd grow. Say the elk in Utah. Well, then, time to fire up the PR machine!
Start spreading favors at the state capitol building. Grow your influence over how budgets are set for F&G. This growing influence shuts up the leadership bureacrats at F&G. Get your slate of commissioners on the Wildlife Board.
You can now push through legislation that you write and hand off to your pet senator. The wildlife board will not raise a stink. The F&G will not publicly raise a stink. Easy breezy.
Next, create tons of transferable landowner tags. The outfitters will grease the skids for that tactic. Got to have even more tags for Richie Rich so he can hire outfitters at top dollar.
The above playbook is brilliant. Most of us could be handed the playbook and screw it up 99 out of 100 attempts, though.
The concept of a new breed of organization that can get into messy political fights on behalf of Joe SixPack and state F&G is worthwhile, in my opinion.
The execution of the playbook has become very, very messy. Trust has been broken. Promises were quickly made during the power-building phase but slowly delivered upon. Who can forget the delay in financial reporting and Expo tag odds?
Most of us agree SFW has shot itself and its offspring in the foot.
Zim
Well-known member
Yes, definitely. The scarey thing for me is I smelled the original skunk in Utah dam near a decade ago, yet it still seems like so few have learned from so many lies, kept giving SFW chance after chance after chance to make good on promises. When SFW hit a wall on auction tags, they morphed the original scam from auction to raffle to make it more appealing for a state's ignorant and greedy hunters (not all). Hey, can't steal tags one way..........we'll make it appealing for the residents by yanking 200 voiceless nonresident tags and making them available to only residents by only selling tickets in AZ. Thus they appeal to that portion of the greedy hunters who get more tag drawing opportunities with the impression they are funding wildlife.
It is totally amazing to me even today to watch the Utah hunters look aside from principals and run full speed to that dam expo to buy snowball chance in hell raffle tickets. And excited to do so??? THAT IS WHAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BATTLE. They don't give a ****. SFW is using hunter's personal greed and ignorance to their own advantage!
I really don't know what to do about this to really make a difference. Write letters to bought and paid for legislators and wildlife boards? As nonresidents we can't even vote the crooked ones out.
I saw one new org's link. Maybe go check them out.
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BuzzH
Well-known member
Zim,
Why should it be amazing that Utards flock to the expo?
Don Peay stole 200 tags from the Non resident draw and, most of those go to Utah Residents. Its just another chance for a Utah Resident to draw a tag that should have been going to Non Residents.
What isnt there to like about that as a Resident?
If you're a Utah Resident, and dont have max points, I bet draw odds for some tags are as good or better at the expo than through the state draw...
You cant figure out why they throw their $5 out there and support this crap? No brainer.
Why should it be amazing that Utards flock to the expo?
Don Peay stole 200 tags from the Non resident draw and, most of those go to Utah Residents. Its just another chance for a Utah Resident to draw a tag that should have been going to Non Residents.
What isnt there to like about that as a Resident?
If you're a Utah Resident, and dont have max points, I bet draw odds for some tags are as good or better at the expo than through the state draw...
You cant figure out why they throw their $5 out there and support this crap? No brainer.
Zim
Well-known member
Buzz, I know everything you just posted. It just mirrored what I posted. What I can't believe about it are how ignorant they are, and that they fund the same crooks they have been biatching about for 10 years. Instead they are deceived by the thrill of multiple miniscule snowflake chance in hell $5 chances.
1st - They totally ignore morals and ethics. If you don't support criminals they should boycott the Expo like I do. That is how I was raised. I would not go or buy chances if I lived next to the Expo and the odds were actually realistic. I don't want a tag stolen from anyone at any price, that is going to fund criminals and destroying the North American Model of Wildlife Management. Period. I would never put personal gain first. I've been that way my entire life. I would be a horrible politician because I would not be bought like Weiers under any circumstance.
2nd - DO THE MATH!!! A guy would have an exponentially better chance of drawing a sheep or moose tag in Idaho (or somewhere else they don't apply) in their regular lottery with one choice (even with all the nonrefundable fees) than if you add up all their $5 snowball chances in Utah! That is why SFW refused to release the odds for so long! But the dope lemmings who run to the expo are still too lazy or stupid to do the math!!! So a Utards money is better invested elsewhere anyway!
1st - They totally ignore morals and ethics. If you don't support criminals they should boycott the Expo like I do. That is how I was raised. I would not go or buy chances if I lived next to the Expo and the odds were actually realistic. I don't want a tag stolen from anyone at any price, that is going to fund criminals and destroying the North American Model of Wildlife Management. Period. I would never put personal gain first. I've been that way my entire life. I would be a horrible politician because I would not be bought like Weiers under any circumstance.
2nd - DO THE MATH!!! A guy would have an exponentially better chance of drawing a sheep or moose tag in Idaho (or somewhere else they don't apply) in their regular lottery with one choice (even with all the nonrefundable fees) than if you add up all their $5 snowball chances in Utah! That is why SFW refused to release the odds for so long! But the dope lemmings who run to the expo are still too lazy or stupid to do the math!!! So a Utards money is better invested elsewhere anyway!
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BuzzH
Well-known member
I cant argue with any of that...I just told you the reasons why the expo is a big deal and why people throw their name in the hat for $5. Nobody has any better odds than anybody else and its an additional chance at a tag, in many cases, tags that they'll never draw in Utah any other way.
Thats the appeal, a $5 chance at a tag.
I agree the situation sucks in Utah, but it is what it is. If the Residents of Utah cant figure it out, we're done. As a NR of Utah, I dont have much I can do at this point to reverse it. Thats on the Utah Sportsmen to figure out.
I'd do what I could to help them out if they try to throw SFW out the door...but the reality is, theres very little I can do.
Thats the appeal, a $5 chance at a tag.
I agree the situation sucks in Utah, but it is what it is. If the Residents of Utah cant figure it out, we're done. As a NR of Utah, I dont have much I can do at this point to reverse it. Thats on the Utah Sportsmen to figure out.
I'd do what I could to help them out if they try to throw SFW out the door...but the reality is, theres very little I can do.
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junior88
Well-known member
If this bill was so beneficial to AZ why did they try to sneak it past everyone? No one seemed to know about it. especially AZGFD. The fact that so many were kept out of the loop tell us all we need to know about this crap.
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