AZ auction tags going away

[BuzzH]

Those few tags build a lot of drinkers and do a lot for animal habitat (particularly sheep). In places like AZ where the environment is harsh, that can make a big difference in animals numbers, which translates to overall tag availability.

Maybe. But in Wyoming if we correlate sheep on the mountain with money raised via governors tags and super tags, then the program is an epic failure.

When i moved here in 2000 Wyoming was issuing around 400 sheep tags. With all these millions of dollars we've raised, pimped our wildlife to the well heeled to acquire, I'm not seeing more opportunities, but LESS. We're issuing about 180 tags here for sheep.

I'm seeing 7 sheep hunting opportunities sacrificed, money flying out the window, and not much of a return on the investment.

I'm still waiting for all this good these tags are allegedly doing to start appearing in the form of more sheep on the mountain and tag numbers increasing.

 

[brymoore]

Maybe. But in Wyoming if we correlate sheep on the mountain with money raised via governors tags and super tags, then the program is an epic failure.

When i moved here in 2000 Wyoming was issuing around 400 sheep tags. With all these millions of dollars we've raised, pimped our wildlife to the well heeled to acquire, I'm not seeing more opportunities, but LESS. We're issuing about 180 tags here for sheep.

I'm seeing 7 sheep hunting opportunities sacrificed, money flying out the window, and not much of a return on the investment.

I'm still waiting for all this good these tags are allegedly doing to start appearing in the form of more sheep on the mountain and tag numbers increasing.

Exactly. BHS auction tags are one of the biggest scams in conservation. The organization selling the tags for a percentage fee pat themselves on the back for doing a great job raising money, the rich hunters buy their grand slam while BHS numbers continue to go down.

 

[MTGomer]

Exactly. BHS auction tags are one of the biggest scams in conservation. The organization selling the tags for a percentage fee pat themselves on the back for doing a great job raising money, the rich hunters buy their grand slam while BHS numbers continue to go down.

Just to clarify…. WSF gets 0 from the AZ DBHS tag sale.
100% goes back to AZ and our sheep populations and sheep hunting opportunity has been on a steady increase for some time now, even through historic drought.

Idk what they do with the $ in WY and ID.
Without needing to build drinkers and pay for helicopter time to fly water, you guys should be flush with cash to do burns or grazing buyouts or whatever. Looking at how your sheep populations are doing, I wouldn’t be happy either. Where is the money going?

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

Maybe. But in Wyoming if we correlate sheep on the mountain with money raised via governors tags and super tags, then the program is an epic failure.

When i moved here in 2000 Wyoming was issuing around 400 sheep tags. With all these millions of dollars we've raised, pimped our wildlife to the well heeled to acquire, I'm not seeing more opportunities, but LESS. We're issuing about 180 tags here for sheep.

I'm seeing 7 sheep hunting opportunities sacrificed, money flying out the window, and not much of a return on the investment.

I'm still waiting for all this good these tags are allegedly doing to start appearing in the form of more sheep on the mountain and tag numbers increasing.

That’s why I said in places like AZ. In AZ/NV it makes a difference. Places like WY, MT, CO I’d tend to agree, the habitat can support them without a lot of human improvements.

 

[Oak]

Maybe. But in Wyoming if we correlate sheep on the mountain with money raised via governors tags and super tags, then the program is an epic failure.

When i moved here in 2000 Wyoming was issuing around 400 sheep tags. With all these millions of dollars we've raised, pimped our wildlife to the well heeled to acquire, I'm not seeing more opportunities, but LESS. We're issuing about 180 tags here for sheep.

I'm seeing 7 sheep hunting opportunities sacrificed, money flying out the window, and not much of a return on the investment.

I'm still waiting for all this good these tags are allegedly doing to start appearing in the form of more sheep on the mountain and tag numbers increasing.

Your point is well taken, and largely the case across the west.
Side note: bighorn sheep management in WY is a shit show due to the ag influence. Legislators passing bills authorizing removal of bighorn sheep on public lands in deference to domestic sheep? If I had to do sheep conservation in WY, I’d pick another line of work.

 

[BuzzH]

That’s why I said in places like AZ. In AZ/NV it makes a difference. Places like WY, MT, CO I’d tend to agree, the habitat can support them without a lot of human improvements.

Sure, but why is it we have to give away the best wildlife in the state to Jimmy John type guys to raise money?

Further, another thing that has always bothered me, guys like that make an appearance at the hunt expo is Salt Lake and they pour water over a red carpet so they can walk on it.

Meanwhile, hundreds of locals are applying year after year, donating their money and time, their efforts don't even make a blip on the GF web sites.

I'm over it, money associated with these tags (auction) has done more to corrupt and negatively influence hunting than any good they provide IMO.

I should clarify, I'm much more supportive of raffle tags, so those people that aren't getting recognized for their hard work actually have a chance.

 

[cfree]

My guess is AZSFW was making another behind the scenes end run on a Utah style expo/auction event with increased tags and AZGFD needed to head it off as best they could.

 

[BuzzH]

Your point is well taken, and largely the case across the west.
Side note: bighorn sheep management in WY is a shit show due to the ag influence. Legislators passing bills authorizing removal of bighorn sheep on public lands in deference to domestic sheep? If I had to do sheep conservation in WY, I’d pick another line of work.

The Wyoming WSF backed this years bill and the previous one in 2015.

How does that make sense? I'm pretty sure I know, and helping to pass shit legislation to get what you want to justify your existence is no way to operate. Again, IMO.

 

[abqbw]

Good for Arizona. AZ is such a leader in keeping wildlife and hunting public and resident.

 

[abqbw]

So the AZ Game and Fish Commission decided to do away with auction tags. Residents and non residents alike are about to see their fees go up. How else will they recoup the dollars that were raised by these tags.

AZ will figure it out.

I live in NM where we have the largest transferable private landowner tag system and thus the largest nonresident tag share in the west. The privateers argue that wildlife management and funding would collapse if NM met its public trust obligations to its residents instead of the wholesale giveaway of the NM public’s wildlife to outfitters and landowners. But AZ has no landowner or outfitter private tags and 92% of all elk tags go to an AZ resident by public draw. Only 55% in NM do. Yet AZDGF is as well or better funded and does as good or better job managing wildlife as NM. Proof that wildlife does not need to be turned over to commercial interests, including the huge nonprofits peddling auction tags, for effective management and sustainability.

 

[abqbw]

Aren’t you just paying your tag fee and doing the same thing, killing it or are you going up the mountain and praying for it ? What difference is it if a guy donates $400,000 to kill a ram or a guy pays $700 tag fee to do the same thing? I think a lot of people just resent the successful rich guys.

By your logic the states should just put all tags out to the highest bidder. Maybe eliminate nonresident quotas. Let nonresidents that can afford the steeper fees and travel expense have 50% or more of the tags. There would be tons money coming in. Part of the public trust is that wealth is not a determinant for access to hunting. Ana these days access begins with the permits.

 

[abqbw]

Why is it up to the commission to replace the funding?

Ask the "conservation heros" to step up without giving them the best tags in the State.

I reckon we'll find out just how far their conservation efforts, caring about sheep, and hypocrisy really goes...

Exactly. People buying tags to kill sheep for hundreds of thousands of dollars and the so called nonprofit orgs banking a share of that money and paying their execs $300k salaries are made out to be heros. Please. Write the check with no return except the public good and we will talk.

WSF will bank to itself $60,000 this year just for laundering the NM Rocky Mtn Bighorn sheep tag. WSFs latest 990 tax filing shows $1.5 million in employee compensation and benefits. $339,000 to the CEO.

The convention and banquet circuit laundering the auction tags has to be a couple hundred million dollar a year business for the “non-profits”.

Apparently AZ was wise enough to see how out of control the auction industrial complex has become and put a stop to it.

What really goads me is that WSF and NMWSF leverages the wealth and influence built though our tags to lobby our game commission for nonresident tags. During the 2022 4-year rule cycle I made some proposals in a formal setting for bighorn rule to NMDGF. They told me straight up that if I wanted NMDGF to propose anything to the game commission about sheep, I had to get the approval of NMWSF (New Mexico Chapter of the Wild Sheep Foundation) first. The tail is wagging the dog.

 

[abqbw]

It really is that simple.

The fact that the commission won’t state that they’ll do this, is what bothers me.

They’ve been given ample opportunity to make a simple statement to say that they care about species specific funding and will do x thing to achieve y result.
They won’t say it.
Nobody brought anything to the legislature to adjust prices and earmark funds.
There’s no talk that anybody will. If they do, will it pass? Will an anti hunting gov Hobbs sign it?

I think the lack of a plan is a problem, but I’ve always thought that allowing people that are not avid hunters to be involved in wildlife management, much less on the commission, is a problem.

I understand the consternation by you and others about the commission not presenting a plan to replace any funding that might be lost before voting to kill the auction tags. But I’m not concerned. I applaud the AZ game commission for making the right choice now and working on funding later. Some things need to be blown up to be fixed. It takes guts and AZ showed guts. Now everyone is motivated to figure out the money. I am confident it won’t be an issue.

 

[abqbw]

States could give their art collections to art dealers and buildings and land to realtors to auction off. Imagine the money that would be raised? But how public money is raised matters. AZ decided, properly in my opinion, it did not like the way money was being raised by and for its wildlife through tag auctions. Just as AZ has for decades decided to forgo tons of potential nonresident tag money by having possibly the lowest real nonresident big game tag rate of any western state.

Just as AZ has figured out how to have an adequately funded agency while only giving a small percentage of big game tags to nonresidents and none to landowners or outfitters, it will figure out funding without auctions tags.

AZ is the gold standard in the west with respect to keeping its wildlife and hunting public with vast majority resident benefit. This action on auction tags fits perfectly into the AZ model.

The amount of money raised by auction tags is a minuscule fraction of public spending. If wildlife isn’t important enough to fund publicly in the best interest of wildlife and the public, selling some tags to zillionaires isn’t going to save it.

 

[Undomesticated]

I understand the consternation by you and others about the commission not presenting a plan to replace any funding that might be lost before voting to kill the auction tags. But I’m not concerned. I applaud the AZ game commission for making the right choice now and working on funding later. Some things need to be blown up to be fixed. It takes guts and AZ showed guts. Now everyone is motivated to figure out the money. I am confident it won’t be an issue.

I agree wholeheartedly (said as an AZ resident). This news comes as a bit of a surprise to me given the clout that those able to purchase said-tags obviously carry.

Increase tag or application fees, expand 'bonus' raffle programs, etc. We've got 350,000 license-buying hunters in AZ. The former-Governor's tags are still available. Add them to the raffle pile, publicize the raffle a bit more, you'll make up the revenue.

GoHunt has an article up that links to HOWL, though the link on HOWL's site doesn't seem to work. The quotations provided in the GoHunt article are quite one-sided, probably disingenuous, however. It certainly appears that HOWL took down their article after the commission voted on Friday, unless I am missing something? If so, that is a pretty terrible look.

ALERT: Arizona commission could eliminate auctioned tags // GOHUNT. The Hunting Company

HOWL for Wildlife asks for your support before March 15 meeting

www.gohunt.com

 

[Jape]

I am so incredibly thrilled to see Arizona take this action. I used to drink the koolaid that these high bidders actually contributed to conservation efforts. Then I did a deep dive into sheep populations and tag numbers in the Intermountain West for the past 50 years. It shocked me that tag numbers have decreased rather than increased in almost every instance. Not to mention the incredibly negative optics of a 400 lb guy shooting a huge bull elk surrounded by 19 guys who made sure that happened. I love capitalism and people should be able to do what they want with their money, but that photo just made me sick. What I’m more interested in is how many guzzlers guys like that have helped build, how many mountain mahogany they have planted, and how many trails they have helped clear. My guess is that in almost every instance the answer is zero.

 

[TheTone]

Isn’t this an opportunity for those that bought the auction tags all the time to show how much of a conservationist they are and keep funding projects through donations or volunteer groups? I bet they won’t; those actions don’t put another dead critter in a trophy room

 

[Bigjay73]

The whole hating on rich people thing isn't very constructive, and it's a pretty tired conversation. Are any of us who don't draw a $1200 wyoming elk tag donating that money to RMEF?

 

[WapitiBob]

Sevral years ago Jimmy John bought a Montana guys domestic sheep herd and replaced it with cattle to help the wild sheep, and paid for about 4 miles of NM fencing for their sheep crossings.

 

[cgasner1]

It’s always baffled me how people with more money than they could spend in 10x lifetimes don’t try and fix things in this country.